New lawn from scratch

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » October 29th, 2019, 10:52 pm

4) I also have loose fluffy soil tunnels showing up all over the lawn, possibly by moles. Is there any repellant that I can spray or spread? Basically something to get them off my lawn without killing them. I am surrounded by acres of forest where these pests can move to.

P.S. I have an electric 20" lawnmower that can cut grass to 1-1/4" at the lowest setting. https://www.worx.com/13amp-electric-law ... wg719.html

lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » October 30th, 2019, 11:22 am

lawnlawn wrote:
October 29th, 2019, 10:09 pm
Hello Experts,
Day 34 from seeding, 28 days since germination, and the lawn is around 3 to 4 inches tall. The grass blades are really thin but do have multiple blades per plant. I have a few questions;

1) Do you think it's about time to do the first cut? if so then cut to what height? The blades look very very thin and fragile but the grass is holding tight to the soil even after multiple heavy downpours last week. We are gently walking on it as we are doing fall leaf cleanup and notice that our shoe easily presses all the grass underneath in one direction but not uprooting anything.

2) Do I need to fertilize the lawn now or wait for spring? if now then which fertilizer mix? I do have a Scotts winter guard that I purchased last month.

3) Some spots where grass didn't grow or germination was sparse I am getting broadleaf weeds. What's the best weed killer to get rid of them without affecting KBG? Attached are some pictures.

4) I also have loose fluffy soil tunnels showing up all over the lawn, possibly by moles. Is there any repellant that I can spray or spread? Basically something to get them off my lawn without killing them. I am surrounded by acres of forest where these pests can move to.

P.S. I have an electric 20" lawnmower that can cut grass to 1-1/4" at the lowest setting.
https://www.worx.com/13amp-electric-law ... wg719.html

Thanks!
Image

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After reading more should I order Tenacity to spray over this weekend? if so then should I mow the lawn first and then spray tenacity or wait to mow another week after tenacity application?

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by schreibdave » October 30th, 2019, 11:41 am

I would set the mower to take off just the tips of the grass. If it's 4" I would cut it down to 3.5" and then slowly lower as you get to the end of the season.

As for weeds - I think wbg say to wait for 3 mowings vefore using. It speaks to it on the label. I would look into that. I would also spend some time pulling weeds by hand.

As for what fertilizer to use, that would depend on your soil test. I need P and K so I used 16-16-16. If you dont need the P and K you can use any slow release source of N. 1lb of actual N per month is what you want.

lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » October 30th, 2019, 12:07 pm

schreibdave wrote:
October 30th, 2019, 11:41 am
I would set the mower to take off just the tips of the grass. If it's 4" I would cut it down to 3.5" and then slowly lower as you get to the end of the season.

As for weeds - I think wbg say to wait for 3 mowings vefore using. It speaks to it on the label. I would look into that. I would also spend some time pulling weeds by hand.

As for what fertilizer to use, that would depend on your soil test. I need P and K so I used 16-16-16. If you dont need the P and K you can use any slow release source of N. 1lb of actual N per month is what you want.
Thanks for the reply. I would start to cut 1/2 inch every weekend now on. What should be my target height before winter really sets in? BTW I was in Upstate last weekend including Syracuse (Green lake trail, Carousel mall to get kid picture on Americas' oldest public carousel), finger lakes, etc. we do this every year as our fall foliage trip. It was very nice weather and the fall foliage was at the peak. A little over a decade ago I lived in Syracuse for almost 4 years.

I had a soil test done prior to seeding in September. I applied milorganite and Scotts starter fertilizer with Tenacity during seeding and topping of peat moss, other than that yard hasn't seen any fertilizer for the last 3 years, maybe much longer than that.

Here is the soil test thread and Andy's recommendation.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25401
andy10917 wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 8:13 pm
The lawn varies in sandiness from "very sandy" to "somewhat sandy". The OM% varies from "poor" to "pretty good". Add organic matter in the areas that are below 4%, and do it regularly. I suspect some of the variability is more due to a low number of samples as much as any actual difference - a single "crazy" reading has more effect when there are a low number of samples than in a larger sample set.

Likewise, there is a big variation in the cations and ratios, and that causes pH values to be all over the board. Since you can't know exactly where the soil from one set borders on another set, it is impractical to know when/where to switch from one regimen to another.

The "Pool" area is your best soil, and it lacks some Phosphorus, Potassium and Calcium. I'd apply good calcitic lime once this Fall and a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 or 19-19-19 (or any where the nutrient amounts of NPK are very close). Select one and post the NPK for application rates. 9 lbs/K once this Fall. The balanced fertilizer will be skipped until Spring, but a all-N winterizer may still be in the cards for you - let it play out once the seed matures and the weather plays out.

That's what I'd do in the Fall. I'd like to see how the lawn responds and then continue with a full plan for 2020 in April. Does that work for you? I think we should be able to do the plan with the exiting soil tests.

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by schreibdave » October 30th, 2019, 3:28 pm

I live in Manlius which is a south eastern burb of syracuse. Not too far from Green Lakes. My son jogs those trails a lot in the warm weather.

I'm no expert but I am currently at 2.5" and I may go down to 2" once top growth has stopped. Your climate is obviously different from ours and I bet you have a few more weeks in your growing season than we have. So maybe get it down to 2"-2.5" around Thanksgiving?

On the fertilizer, if Andy recommended a balanced fertilizer based on your soil test, I would use that again. And if it's been a month since you put down the starter fertilizer now would be the time to do it. And then once top growth has stopped in a couple weeks you will probably want to hit it again with a quick release source of N like urea.

Good luck


lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » October 30th, 2019, 11:27 pm

schreibdave wrote:
October 30th, 2019, 3:28 pm
I live in Manlius which is a south eastern burb of syracuse. Not too far from Green Lakes. My son jogs those trails a lot in the warm weather.

I'm no expert but I am currently at 2.5" and I may go down to 2" once top growth has stopped. Your climate is obviously different from ours and I bet you have a few more weeks in your growing season than we have. So maybe get it down to 2"-2.5" around Thanksgiving?

On the fertilizer, if Andy recommended a balanced fertilizer based on your soil test, I would use that again. And if it's been a month since you put down the starter fertilizer now would be the time to do it. And then once top growth has stopped in a couple weeks you will probably want to hit it again with a quick release source of N like urea.

Good luck
Thanks for the advice on cut height. I'll look into balance fertilizer and try to apply this weekend. Does it make any difference in applying fertilizer before mowing versus a day or two after mowing?

I don't have balance fertilizer in hand but I do have

a) Scotts Green Max Lawn Food - Lawn Fertilizer Plus Iron Supplement Builds Thick, Green Lawns,
b) Scotts Turf Builder WinterGuard Fall Lawn Food, and
c) Scotts 22315 Turf Builder Lawn Food Northern.

Could any of these be useful on the lawn in the coming weeks?

d) Scotts GrubEx - Grub Killer and Preventer --- I think this one is better to apply in early spring.

P.S. I lived in Jamesville for close to 4 years when I was working at Upstate.

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by schreibdave » October 31st, 2019, 8:30 am

"Does it make any difference in applying fertilizer before mowing versus a day or two after mowing?"

I dont think so. However if you bag the clippings (which you shouldn't) you don't want the mower to suck up any fertilizer. I'm not sure if that's a "thing" but it would be something to look out for. Also, I find that it's easier to push my spreader through a lawn with shorter grass than one with higher grass - less resistance. So I would mow first than fertilize but I dont think it matters.

In terms of the specific product to apply, you should focus on whether your soil test indicates that you need P and/or K. If you do, you want to apply something that has as much of that element as possible. Almost all fertilizers have nitrogen (first number) but they vary greatly in P and K - the second and third numbers.

The second thing to look for is to what degree the nitrogen is in fast release vs slow release form. I would think that at this stage your lawn would want slow release nitrogen so that it is fed gently over a longer period. After top growth stops you will want fast release so that it gets a big meal before going to bed for the winter. That's assuming that a southern NJ lawn goes dormant in winter.

I haven't had grubs since my very fist home 25 years ago so I don't have any real experience with that problem. Sorry.

For what it's worth I have the same 3 seed cultivars that you have and I have been hit by a fungus of some sort (I have a thread on it). This is my first experience using a fungicide of any kind. You might want to bone up on how/what to use and get some in stock before you have a problem. As I understand it we should use Serenade as a preventative (I didnt) and when an outbreak hits something like Spectator Ultra to try to control it.

Jamesville is nice. If you were to take Rt 173 from Jamesville through the village of Manlius, past the high school and make a Rt on Eagle Village Rd you would drive right past my house.

lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » November 12th, 2019, 6:20 pm

schreibdave wrote:
October 31st, 2019, 8:30 am
"Does it make any difference in applying fertilizer before mowing versus a day or two after mowing?"

I dont think so. However if you bag the clippings (which you shouldn't) you don't want the mower to suck up any fertilizer. I'm not sure if that's a "thing" but it would be something to look out for. Also, I find that it's easier to push my spreader through a lawn with shorter grass than one with higher grass - less resistance. So I would mow first than fertilize but I dont think it matters.

In terms of the specific product to apply, you should focus on whether your soil test indicates that you need P and/or K. If you do, you want to apply something that has as much of that element as possible. Almost all fertilizers have nitrogen (first number) but they vary greatly in P and K - the second and third numbers.

The second thing to look for is to what degree the nitrogen is in fast release vs slow release form. I would think that at this stage your lawn would want slow release nitrogen so that it is fed gently over a longer period. After top growth stops you will want fast release so that it gets a big meal before going to bed for the winter. That's assuming that a southern NJ lawn goes dormant in winter.

I haven't had grubs since my very fist home 25 years ago so I don't have any real experience with that problem. Sorry.

For what it's worth I have the same 3 seed cultivars that you have and I have been hit by a fungus of some sort (I have a thread on it). This is my first experience using a fungicide of any kind. You might want to bone up on how/what to use and get some in stock before you have a problem. As I understand it we should use Serenade as a preventative (I didnt) and when an outbreak hits something like Spectator Ultra to try to control it.

Jamesville is nice. If you were to take Rt 173 from Jamesville through the village of Manlius, past the high school and make a Rt on Eagle Village Rd you would drive right past my house.
Thanks for all the useful info. A week ago I end up spreading all-purpose fertilizer 10-10-10. I noticed over the weekend that the tip of my grass blades looked little dried out...not sure if it's due to lack of water or fertilizer burn. It seems my grass has stopped growing since the last couple of weeks, the best growing spots are between 3 and 4 inches. Is it necessary to mow fresh grass at least once or I can let it go dormant since I don't see any more growth now?

To repel rodents, I got a 20lb bag of "Yard Gard Organic Mole Repellent" from my neighbor that I spread following all-purpose fertilizer. I hope that helps in some way to get rid of these pests.

I used to work for Upstate med. and really enjoyed my time in Syracuse.

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by schreibdave » November 12th, 2019, 10:37 pm

My lawn has been covered in snow for about 5 days now. May melt next week. Hope so because the lawn needs its last meal of the year.

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