New lawn from scratch

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
lawnlawn
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New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 24th, 2019, 10:55 pm

Hello all, My current house (Southern New Jersey) I purchased 2 summers ago and the lawn (~18,000 sq.ft.) was a complete mess. There was moss everywhere possibly due to shade from trees, so the first summer I cut down almost all of the trees (~25 large oak and few pine trees). Last summer I grounded all the stumps and around fall rented toro dingo harley rake to fix grading and improved level throughout. A few weeks ago I started installing a new sprinkler system (12 zone) which is almost complete, possibly this or next weekend for sure. As of right now, the entire yard is taken over by weeds so I bought 41% glyphosate that I will use to kill all weeds. All work that I did so far didn't require much know-how but now I have to figure out what type of grass I should grow, whether grow from seeds or purchase sod, where to purchase seeds or sod at best price, don't know much about my soil type or soil quality but all neighbors have beautiful lawns though maintained by professional landscapers, I hear that fall is the best time to grow grass but it has been a long process and I really really would like to have a lawn this summer.... I will run the sprinkler system 4 times a day if necessary :)
I am located in South Jersey and feeling pretty clueless on how to proceed, I would appreciate any guidance from the community. Thanks in advance!

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HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » April 26th, 2019, 7:14 am

What weeds do you have?

If you have poa trivialis it would be well worth the wait for fall to fallow it for a while to kill it off for good.

Some pictures would help.

18k is a big first renovation.

Spring renovations from seed are harder, but shade and sprinkler systems are helpful. It's almost May, which is pretty late for seeding too in the spring. Let's say you hit that lawn twice with roundup now and in a week, then seed, your lawn wont germinate for 3 weeks from now, maybe sooner if you use perennial ryegrass. That almost summer with new seedlings .

Sod will be more expensive but that's the best way to gon if you want a lawn by summer. Id still recommend a solid kill of weeds first, but you'd have time to get it rooted by June, and you could spend more time killing weeds.

lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
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Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 26th, 2019, 8:18 am

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
April 26th, 2019, 7:14 am
What weeds do you have?

If you have poa trivialis it would be well worth the wait for fall to fallow it for a while to kill it off for good.

Some pictures would help.

18k is a big first renovation.

Spring renovations from seed are harder, but shade and sprinkler systems are helpful. It's almost May, which is pretty late for seeding too in the spring. Let's say you hit that lawn twice with roundup now and in a week, then seed, your lawn wont germinate for 3 weeks from now, maybe sooner if you use perennial ryegrass. That almost summer with new seedlings .

Sod will be more expensive but that's the best way to gon if you want a lawn by summer. Id still recommend a solid kill of weeds first, but you'd have time to get it rooted by June, and you could spend more time killing weeds.
It seems to be Bittercress as it shoots seeds when touched. and a few other kinds of broadleaf weeds, I'll post pictures little later. I am planning to spray 41% Glyphosate as soon as the rain is over tomorrow. I hear you on timing, but is there any chance that it will work out or I will be wasting time and resources for sure? Any preferred vendors at the forum for purchasing seeds or sod?

lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 26th, 2019, 9:48 am

Here are pictures of all kind of different weeds growing in my yard, the small ones just touching makes it explode seeds, bittercress? At any rate, tomorrow morning, I'll spray 41% glyphosate tomorrow and possibly second round next Friday to get rid of them so I can be ready to sow seeds next weekend or so. At least that's what I am hoping for not sure if it's realistic.
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lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
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Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 26th, 2019, 10:09 am

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lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 26th, 2019, 10:13 am

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lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 26th, 2019, 10:16 am

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Iowa Jim
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by Iowa Jim » April 27th, 2019, 7:30 am

Hoosierlawngnome gave you good advice and i understand you want a lawn this summer but try to be patient. If you wait and fallow for 4 or 5 weeks and maybe have time to get some bluegrass in there. Fall is the way to go with your experience, seedlings in summer, new irrigation system will take time for dirt to settle and get the bugs out of it. Just my two cents: good luck

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andy10917
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by andy10917 » April 27th, 2019, 8:15 am

Here's a thing to consider: RoundUp (Glyphosate) does not reliably kill Moss. It may brown, but it recovers very often. Read up on using Dawn dishwashing liquid to kill Moss, but it takes multiple treatments, and I wouldn't do it when the seed is down.

lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 27th, 2019, 11:29 am

Iowa Jim wrote:
April 27th, 2019, 7:30 am
Hoosierlawngnome gave you good advice and i understand you want a lawn this summer but try to be patient. If you wait and fallow for 4 or 5 weeks and maybe have time to get some bluegrass in there. Fall is the way to go with your experience, seedlings in summer, new irrigation system will take time for dirt to settle and get the bugs out of it. Just my two cents: good luck
Thanks 'Hoosierlawngnome and 'Iowa Jim'.

With weeds my major concern is that bittercress is shooting seeds all around....the roundup will kill the weed but weed will be back from the seeds. Do I need to wait for weed seeds to germinate and repeat roundup? or I can kill all seeds as well with some other chemical treatment?

I raked and turned up as much as 6 inches to 15 inches of soil last summer....so the ground is unsown for a good amount of time except that weeds start to grow this spring.

I would most likely follow your advice and wait till fall to grow grass. Based on what I found online in terms of the sod prices, it would cost almost $8000 for my lawn just for sod alone...and then probably I'll need to pay professionals to install it. So my initial thought was to purchase Scotts or Pennington sun and shade seed mix, I estimated to cost around $200 for seeds. Spread them around in mid-May and see what survives. If it fails then I just lose $200 and a few hundred $$$ in the water bill.

If I wait till fall any place community recommends to source good grass seeds?

Thanks again!

lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 27th, 2019, 11:35 am

andy10917 wrote:
April 27th, 2019, 8:15 am
Here's a thing to consider: RoundUp (Glyphosate) does not reliably kill Moss. It may brown, but it recovers very often. Read up on using Dawn dishwashing liquid to kill Moss, but it takes multiple treatments, and I wouldn't do it when the seed is down.
Alright, good to know. I don't have moss anymore. Moss was the reason I decided to kill the existing lawn and cut down all the trees. Before moss was everywhere as most of the lawn was shaded by big trees, now moss is not an issue but it is also mostly dirt with weed growing all around now.

Iowa Jim
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Joined: September 17th, 2018, 10:32 am
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by Iowa Jim » April 27th, 2019, 1:47 pm

When you turned up the soil last summer you disturbed a bunch of weed seeds that had been buried. What i would do is about July 10-15 round up the entire lawn and repeat when the weeds start growing good again until about the 15 of August is when you want to plant seeds.

some tips- 1.make sure you water the lawn just like your growing grass seed when you are fallowing
2.maybe fertilize during the fallow to get the weeds growing good to get a better kill
3.you want to put your last glyphosate app down 1-2 days before you plant grass seed
4.you will need to cut the lawn as low as you can with your mower
5 what ever grass seed you plan to buy make sure you get one that has 0 weed seed and 0 other crops
6. go to the NTEP trials and see what cultivars do well in your area
7. read some of the renos in this forum and you will learn a lot about what other people have experienced with there renos

This will get you to the planting stage with a clean slate on the weeds and there are a lot of people on here that will help with peat moss, watering, tenacity etc. A few good places to buy seed are Hogans, United seeds, Seed superstore. If there is some things you don't know make sure you ask questions. There a lot of good people on here to help you with your questions.

lawnlawn
Posts: 61
Joined: April 24th, 2019, 10:19 pm
Location: South Jersey
Grass Type: Elite KBG blend of Award, Bewitched & Rhapsody seeded in end of September 2019.
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 29th, 2019, 11:05 pm

Iowa Jim wrote:
April 27th, 2019, 1:47 pm
When you turned up the soil last summer you disturbed a bunch of weed seeds that had been buried. What i would do is about July 10-15 round up the entire lawn and repeat when the weeds start growing good again until about the 15 of August is when you want to plant seeds.

some tips- 1.make sure you water the lawn just like your growing grass seed when you are fallowing
2.maybe fertilize during the fallow to get the weeds growing good to get a better kill
3.you want to put your last glyphosate app down 1-2 days before you plant grass seed
4.you will need to cut the lawn as low as you can with your mower
5 what ever grass seed you plan to buy make sure you get one that has 0 weed seed and 0 other crops
6. go to the NTEP trials and see what cultivars do well in your area
7. read some of the renos in this forum and you will learn a lot about what other people have experienced with there renos

This will get you to the planting stage with a clean slate on the weeds and there are a lot of people on here that will help with peat moss, watering, tenacity etc. A few good places to buy seed are Hogans, United seeds, Seed superstore. If there is some things you don't know make sure you ask questions. There a lot of good people on here to help you with your questions.
Thanks so much for valuable advice. I'll follow your recommendations for the next couple of months and seed in August. I checked NTEP website and it seems the latest data is from yr 2014 and J-1136 got the highest ratings (https://www.ntep.org/data/kb11/kb11_15-5/kb11nj214t.txt). I couldn't really find this cultivar to purchase online but I came across very interesting Jacklin seed 'My Holiday lawn' which is very slow growing dwarf variety (http://www.myholidaylawn.com/) can be purchased from the United seeds (https://unitedseeds.com/product/my-holi ... bluegrass/).

Iowa Jim
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by Iowa Jim » April 30th, 2019, 6:57 am

I have never heard of the holiday grass before, but United seeds is a reputable company that is based here in Iowa.

lawnlawn
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Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by lawnlawn » April 30th, 2019, 7:11 am

Iowa Jim wrote:
April 30th, 2019, 6:57 am
I have never heard of the holiday grass before, but United seeds is a reputable company that is based here in Iowa.
The Jacklin seed claims that there Holiday Lawn needs to be mowed only once a month as it's a dwarf variety. Online pictures of turf look good too,

Iowa Jim
Posts: 43
Joined: September 17th, 2018, 10:32 am
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Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by Iowa Jim » May 1st, 2019, 7:20 am

lawnlawn wrote:
April 30th, 2019, 7:11 am
Iowa Jim wrote:
April 30th, 2019, 6:57 am
I have never heard of the holiday grass before, but United seeds is a reputable company that is based here in Iowa.
The Jacklin seed claims that there Holiday Lawn needs to be mowed only once a month as it's a dwarf variety. Online pictures of turf look good too,
The one thing that concerns me is that they say it is a bluegrass. But what they don't say is what the cultivars are or the parents of the cultivars. Im not saying it won't work but i am a little skeptical of it. Maybe somebody on here will chime in that has experience with it.

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turf_toes
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by turf_toes » May 1st, 2019, 7:44 am

Iowa Jim wrote:
May 1st, 2019, 7:20 am
lawnlawn wrote:
April 30th, 2019, 7:11 am
Iowa Jim wrote:
April 30th, 2019, 6:57 am
I have never heard of the holiday grass before, but United seeds is a reputable company that is based here in Iowa.
The Jacklin seed claims that there Holiday Lawn needs to be mowed only once a month as it's a dwarf variety. Online pictures of turf look good too,
The one thing that concerns me is that they say it is a bluegrass. But what they don't say is what the cultivars are or the parents of the cultivars. Im not saying it won't work but i am a little skeptical of it. Maybe somebody on here will chime in that has experience with it.

Yep. Hybrids seem to be the new “miracle grass.”

Bluegrass isn’t the same thing as Kentucky Bluegrass. If it doesn’t say the grass is a Kentucky Bluegrass (claiming only to be a Bluegrass), there is a reason for that.

I’ve never seen a hybrid Bluegrass (or Texas Bluegrass) that looks as good as KBG.

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HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » May 1st, 2019, 8:38 am

Perfect example of how changing the conditions moss likes , wetness shade etc, eliminates it.

Green
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by Green » May 1st, 2019, 8:37 pm

MyHolidayLawn is a KBG, according to their pdf sheet that advertises it, so it has to have some or all KBG DNA, otherwise it would be false advertising. I have seed for it. I'm ok with it if it ends up being a hybrid.

Green
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Re: New lawn from scratch

Post by Green » May 1st, 2019, 8:54 pm

Green wrote:
May 1st, 2019, 8:37 pm
MyHolidayLawn is a KBG, according to their pdf sheet that advertises it, so it has to have some or all KBG DNA, otherwise it would be false advertising.
Here is a quote from the company:
"Q: What kind of grass is My Holiday Lawn?
A: My Holiday Lawn is a series of 3 very
compatible Kentucky bluegrasses
that can be used in combination or
straight (one single variety)."

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