Planning For Fall Reno
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: May 11th, 2019, 12:19 pm
- Location: Erie, PA
- Grass Type: Weeds, Triv, Annua, FF, PRG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Planning For Fall Reno
Hi all. Just wanted to get some advice and tips on my fall reno. Some information on current conditions of the lawn. We moved into our new construction home in July 2017. The dirt, not soil, is crap at best. Last summer, I pulled around 250 rocks larger than a baseball out of the yard creating lots of divots. I filled in with soil and grass, but not mixing with native soil caused much of it to wash away.
The current grass situation in the back is about 35% Triv, 25% broad leafs, 10% bare that weeds won’t even grow (due to it being mostly gravel I believe), and 30% PRG, FF, and little to no KBG. I am planning on killing it off, leveling, seeding either a 90% TTTF 10% KBG mix, or 100% KBG blend (don’t want to try a mono stand yet).
I wanted to start killing off now due to the Triv, but my HOA will not allow a bare lawn for more than 60 days. So I will start in third week of June. Soil test shows all levels are good.
-Kill lawn with Glyphosate around 21June
-Water to keep everything growing
-2nd and 3rd app as needed
-Rake Clean
One of two options
-Dress with one inch of compost and till 4 inches. Rake level and allow to settle for 2-3 weeks, killing anything that comes up. Drag and level.
-Dress with 50/50 soil/compost mix and no till. Drag, level, wet, repeat
-Milorganite at new seeding rate
-Seed and Tackifier around 15Aug
-Light Roll
-Dress with 1/4” compost
-Light Roll
-Water and wait
Any criticism, tips, and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
The current grass situation in the back is about 35% Triv, 25% broad leafs, 10% bare that weeds won’t even grow (due to it being mostly gravel I believe), and 30% PRG, FF, and little to no KBG. I am planning on killing it off, leveling, seeding either a 90% TTTF 10% KBG mix, or 100% KBG blend (don’t want to try a mono stand yet).
I wanted to start killing off now due to the Triv, but my HOA will not allow a bare lawn for more than 60 days. So I will start in third week of June. Soil test shows all levels are good.
-Kill lawn with Glyphosate around 21June
-Water to keep everything growing
-2nd and 3rd app as needed
-Rake Clean
One of two options
-Dress with one inch of compost and till 4 inches. Rake level and allow to settle for 2-3 weeks, killing anything that comes up. Drag and level.
-Dress with 50/50 soil/compost mix and no till. Drag, level, wet, repeat
-Milorganite at new seeding rate
-Seed and Tackifier around 15Aug
-Light Roll
-Dress with 1/4” compost
-Light Roll
-Water and wait
Any criticism, tips, and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
What did the soil test show for a TEC or CEC of the existing soil? Don't bother posting the whole soil test - we only interpret soil tests from our specific lab.
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: May 11th, 2019, 12:19 pm
- Location: Erie, PA
- Grass Type: Weeds, Triv, Annua, FF, PRG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
Bad. CEC - 4.4
% Saturation
K - 3.9
Mg - 19.9
Ca - 76.2
% Saturation
K - 3.9
Mg - 19.9
Ca - 76.2
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: May 11th, 2019, 12:19 pm
- Location: Erie, PA
- Grass Type: Weeds, Triv, Annua, FF, PRG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
Just had a couple of additional question come to mind. If I do a blanket tenacity app now to discolor the Triv, could I just use Glypho on the spots now? Not sure if I would still be fine seeding in Aug? Or is it a waste of Tenacity? If I should, would filling with a temporary grass be worth filling it in?
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
Many members now/recently did a "diagnostic dose" of Tenaciity (0.5 teaspoons/gallon) to "light up" susceptible weeds, Poa Annua and Poa Triv. It will not kill Poa Triv, but will (by turning white) show where it is. The whole lawn may show some whitening for a couple of weeks. Tenacity can be applied up to the actual seeding, and again 28 days after seeding.
Glyphosate will kill both good and bad grasses and plants, except that even that isn't 100% reliable on Poa Triv (it returns 3-5 months later sometimes).
Glyphosate will kill both good and bad grasses and plants, except that even that isn't 100% reliable on Poa Triv (it returns 3-5 months later sometimes).
- HoosierLawnGnome
- Posts: 9591
- Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
- Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
- Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
I wouldn't till if you have poa trivialis or quackgrass. You will divide the plant and multiply it, while fertilizing it with compost. Just blanket spray.
Now it you need to level and bring in topsoil you may consider it, but not for an inch or so.
I've had success with applying tenacity up to 24 hrs after seed down too. Just dont push it after that.
Now it you need to level and bring in topsoil you may consider it, but not for an inch or so.
I've had success with applying tenacity up to 24 hrs after seed down too. Just dont push it after that.
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
+1. Why do folks think that mixing up the soil makes it better? You lose much of the microherd, fight uneven areas for years, etc. I guess old ideas die hard.
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: May 11th, 2019, 12:19 pm
- Location: Erie, PA
- Grass Type: Weeds, Triv, Annua, FF, PRG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
Thanks guys, that’ll save me a bunch of money and time. The reason I was even considering tilling, was the horticulturist at the local extension office recommended it after this last soil test.
For leveling, with or without extra soil, would a drag mat with teeth do the trick?
Everything else look good? Anything I left out?
Thanks again guys.
For leveling, with or without extra soil, would a drag mat with teeth do the trick?
Everything else look good? Anything I left out?
Thanks again guys.
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- Posts: 43
- Joined: September 17th, 2018, 10:32 am
- Location: Waterloo, Iowa
- Grass Type: kentucky bluegrass
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
Andy is it 28 days after seeding or is it 28 days after germination on the tenacity? I thought it was germination or am i just splitting hairs.andy10917 wrote: ↑May 11th, 2019, 3:52 pmMany members now/recently did a "diagnostic dose" of Tenaciity (0.5 teaspoons/gallon) to "light up" susceptible weeds, Poa Annua and Poa Triv. It will not kill Poa Triv, but will (by turning white) show where it is. The whole lawn may show some whitening for a couple of weeks. Tenacity can be applied up to the actual seeding, and again 28 days after seeding.
Glyphosate will kill both good and bad grasses and plants, except that even that isn't 100% reliable on Poa Triv (it returns 3-5 months later sometimes).
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
It's germination, but in a "weed emergency" I have found that it can be stretched a few days
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: May 11th, 2019, 12:19 pm
- Location: Erie, PA
- Grass Type: Weeds, Triv, Annua, FF, PRG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
Can anyone recommend a good drag mat to level by hand? I don’t have access to a riding lawn mower. Thanks much.
- HoosierLawnGnome
- Posts: 9591
- Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
- Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
- Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
R and r products has a good leveling rake.
You wouldn't want to do a large area with that but it could be handy anyways.
A wooden pallet can be a good drag. Better than a mat if you are leveling dirt and not sand, just trying to get it level not putting green perfect.
I'd spray that poa trivialis now until seed down.
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: May 11th, 2019, 12:19 pm
- Location: Erie, PA
- Grass Type: Weeds, Triv, Annua, FF, PRG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
Yeah, I gotta remind myself it doesn’t have to be perfect lol. Start spraying the Triv with glypho or Tenacity or both? I’ve never had to deal with Triv before. I think it came in with the SMS I spread last fall.HoosierLawnGnome wrote: ↑May 12th, 2019, 6:53 pmR and r products has a good leveling rake.
You wouldn't want to do a large area with that but it could be handy anyways.
A wooden pallet can be a good drag. Better than a mat if you are leveling dirt and not sand, just trying to get it level not putting green perfect.
I'd spray that poa trivialis now until seed down.
- HoosierLawnGnome
- Posts: 9591
- Joined: May 22nd, 2013, 5:59 pm
- Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
- Grass Type: Blueberry KBG
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Planning For Fall Reno
Tenacity does nothing to kill poa trivialis other than help identify it. Glyphosate can take several apps over some time.
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