Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by schreibdave » May 3rd, 2020, 10:46 am

I have another 4k sqft of PR to replace with KBG this fall and I will be done with it. In the meantime I lost probably 10-20% of it to winter kill. Today's project is to start to reseed with PR so that it looks good until I can kill it.

In my new kbg areas I have PA germinating. If I am going to spot spray, is tenacity or certainty (or something else) the way to go? I have been out of this fight for a few years.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by andy10917 » May 3rd, 2020, 11:00 am

I have good luck with Tenacity on Poa Annua, but you have to complete the program - don't quit when it fades somewhat. Certainty works also, but only in warmer temperatures (like June 1). Since Certainty makes grass ugly for 60 days, I don't use it when I can get the same or better results without ugliness on Poa Annua with Tenacity. Poa Triv is a different story.

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by schreibdave » May 4th, 2020, 6:57 am

andy10917 wrote:
May 3rd, 2020, 11:00 am
I have good luck with Tenacity on Poa Annua, but you have to complete the program - don't quit when it fades somewhat. Certainty works also, but only in warmer temperatures (like June 1). Since Certainty makes grass ugly for 60 days, I don't use it when I can get the same or better results without ugliness on Poa Annua with Tenacity. Poa Triv is a different story.
I am spot spraying with 1/2 tsp in 1 gallon of water. I will likely do that weekly until I don't see any more Poa A. This will be my first time using tenacity on elite kbg and I am eager (hopeful) to see whitening of the annual and minimal whitening of the kbg. Does my plan sound appropriate?

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by andy10917 » May 4th, 2020, 7:27 am

That's the 4 oz/acre rate, which is pretty standard. If you apply that weekly, you'll reach the maximum annual amount in 4 applications. A more "normal" frequency for the 4 oz/acre rate is 10-14 days.

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by schreibdave » May 4th, 2020, 9:05 am

How high can I go on the rate before I get whiting of the KBG? Will the 4oz rate do that or can I go higher?


User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by andy10917 » May 4th, 2020, 9:12 am

My experience is that the first time that you use Tenacity on KBG, you'll get whitening pretty much for sure, even at the 4 oz/acre level. It seems to be somewhat less with subsequent applications. I don't find that higher application rates improve things much, and they burn through your annual allotment faster.

What's your logic for using higher rates?

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by schreibdave » May 4th, 2020, 11:25 am

andy10917 wrote:
May 4th, 2020, 9:12 am

What's your logic for using higher rates?
More poison = more dying?

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by andy10917 » May 4th, 2020, 11:59 am

Yeah, the old "if a little is good, more must be better" logic. It doesn't really work like that with Tenacity. A little bit works to kill the weeds, and a lot can make a white mess that hurts the good grass too. Not only that, but the annual limit means that you don't want to use your allotment all up by the end of June.

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by schreibdave » May 4th, 2020, 1:01 pm

ok. What I will likely do is look for PA whitening and then paint the plants with RU.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by andy10917 » May 4th, 2020, 1:16 pm

I call the first dose at the beginning of the season (4 oz/acre rate) the "Diagnostic Dose". Its purpose is (a) to get started, and (b) to "light up" your trouble spots. Whether you use more doses of Tenacity or use something else to follow-up is your decision.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by andy10917 » May 5th, 2020, 8:48 am

Hey, Dave - see this thread to understand what happens when "more is better" is taken to an extreme.

Tenacity Overdose

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by schreibdave » May 5th, 2020, 10:09 am

andy10917 wrote:
May 5th, 2020, 8:48 am
Hey, Dave - see this thread to understand what happens when "more is better" is taken to an extreme.

Tenacity Overdose
Point taken, but when I said "more" i was thinking 1-1.5 teaspoons per gallon! I wasn't thinking ounces!

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by schreibdave » May 5th, 2020, 10:34 am

How do you edit a post? In my last post I meant to say 1-1.5 teaspoons per gallon. What I used was 1/2 tsp per gallon.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by andy10917 » May 5th, 2020, 11:10 am

You can't edit it after 15 minutes posted, but I can. I'll fix it for you.

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by schreibdave » May 19th, 2020, 9:06 am

First time spot spraying my new kbg with tenacity. I am very happy that the weeds lit up but the kbg didn't. That was not my experience with my PR or my northern mix. I sprayed while temps were still very cool so maybe that helped.

Image

jrw1
Posts: 2
Joined: May 29th, 2020, 11:22 am
Location: Montgomery County, Maryland
Grass Type: Tall fescue, perennial rye
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by jrw1 » May 29th, 2020, 4:40 pm

I will be doing the same thing this fall 2020, my first complete renovation on the front yard.

I had an infestation of poa trivialis starting the spring of 2019. I did Round Up on those areas in April 2019 (with margins around where it was), and then overseeded those areas in the fall.

Spring of 2020 and those same areas are showing poa triv again starting in late March, and spreading to other areas. I started trying to dig each piece out thinking I might be able to keep up with it. Not so, spreading more than I can handle. I RUed those areas again, same as before. I decided it is probably best to do a total kill and reseed in the fall, as hard as that is.

Here's my question. Now I am plan to RU my entire front yard. I still have small dispersed pockets of poa triv in some areas. Tomorrow is May 30. Is that too late of a date to do Round Up on the entire yard and expect a good result next spring?

Also, I have a tall fescue yard now. I did my own Seed SuperStore mix last year with 83% TTTF and 17% Perennial Rye. I am planning on transitioning to PR/KB mix this fall, either OutsidePride Showtime or Newsom Seed PR 70% KB 30%, they call their Athletic Mix. I am in Maryland. If you have any thoughts on this, I would be interested.

Thanks
Bob

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by andy10917 » May 29th, 2020, 6:05 pm

Bob, I'm going to let it slip this time, as we're almost at the date where we do the Roll Call for 2020 Renovations. But please don't append the story of your yard(s) onto someone else's "journey log". You'll have your own story -- they're cheap (OK, they're free).

jrw1
Posts: 2
Joined: May 29th, 2020, 11:22 am
Location: Montgomery County, Maryland
Grass Type: Tall fescue, perennial rye
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by jrw1 » May 31st, 2020, 12:48 pm

andy10917 wrote:
May 29th, 2020, 6:05 pm
Bob, I'm going to let it slip this time, as we're almost at the date where we do the Roll Call for 2020 Renovations. But please don't append the story of your yard(s) onto someone else's "journey log". You'll have your own story -- they're cheap (OK, they're free).
Yeah, sorry about this, new to the forum and learning the rules. Now I know, won't happen again, Thanks.

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Schreibdave's 2019 KBG Reno

Post by schreibdave » June 1st, 2021, 10:14 am

schreibdave wrote:
July 17th, 2019, 3:35 pm

Yea, I know the town compost stuff is frowned upon here but I have used it every year for the last 13 years for one thing or another and it doesn't produce any more weeds than they areas w/o the compost. And it is easy to fling from the back of the truck or wheel barrow. When I have used peat moss it's a real PITA to get it down where I want it.
Updating an old thread.

Over the last 15 years I have used municipal compost on my lawn probably a dozen times, mostly to protect new seeds. Without exaggeration I have probably used 50 yards of the stuff at various houses. Over the years Andy, Ken-n-Nancy and probably others have warned me about the chance of introducing nasty weed seeds to my lawn by carting in partially composted plant material. Because I'm cheap I have rolled the dice with really good results ... until last August.

Two years ago I renovated 3 sides of the house from PR to KBG. The muni compost worked great. Lawn came up beautifully with minimal weed pressure. Last August I renovated about 4000 ft of my back yard. Again I used the muni compost and this time- not so great. Minimal weeds in the fall but this spring I have every grassy weed known to man. I could open a grassy weed observatory if there is such a thing. Triv, annua and lots of stuff that I'm not familiar with. Fortunately it's the back, it's kinda wet back there anyway, it's the dog's play area, etc. So I'm not heartbroken. But if it were the front I would have to kill it now, fallow over the summer and start over in August. It's that bad. I have the 8oz rate of tenacity loaded in my sprayer and I go through periodically and spot spray the nasties. The good news is that I have discovered that one benefit to an all kbg lawn is that the kbg doesn't turn white from the tenacity. So I could do a light app over the entire yard to highlight the nasties and then go back with RU or certainty to try for the kill. Haven't done it yet but I will probably give it a try.

Just wanted to share my experience.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests