Time to start over - where to start?

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
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thatfishguy
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Location: Long Island, NY
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Time to start over - where to start?

Post by thatfishguy » September 3rd, 2019, 11:04 am

Hi all-

Apologies if this is the wrong place or if I'm asking questions that have been covered in great detail before. i tried reading through the FAQs and some articles, and I think I have a way forward but wanted to confirm.

I'm a NYC resident who never had anything resembling a lawn until 5 years ago, when I bought a seasonal home out on Long Island. I've been paying people for the past 5 years to care for the lawn, and I've reached the point where I think I'm paying for nothing - the lawn doesn't seem very good, the prices are relatively high, and I've reached the point where I'm going to give it a go myself.

The breaking point was when my latest landscaper cleared some brush for me with the plan that he was going to seed the lawn. The clearing was done in May. For whatever reason, he disappeared until late June and claimed it wasn't too late to seed then. He proceeded to nuke the remaining weeds with RoundUp, and now I have a patch of 20x85' of dirt, basically. The rest of the property is a third of an acre riddled with weeds, from crabgrass, clover, chickweed and some other stuff I haven't identified yet.

I think my plan of action is going to be as follows:
  1. Follow the triangle approach and hit the entire lawn over the next 2-4 weeks to target the weeds
  • Send off soil sample for nutritional analysis
  • Fertilize
  • Aerate the soil and seed
Where I'm not clear is how I should approach the triangle. I've read a lot about the herbicides - the triangle approach recommends 2,4D and Dicamba/MCPP. I've also seen Tenacity and Triclopyr mentioned. If I wanted to have at this - which is the best approach? Assuming I'm going to be seeding in about 4-6 weeks, what do I want to be spraying now to start killing off the weeds?

Soil samples - how many is "enough"? It's a 135x85 lot, with a house situated smack in the middle. My backyard is partial sun, and the sides and front are for the most part full sun. The soil seems to be the same throughout (though again, what do I know?). If I take 2 samples from each section, enough or do I need more?

Is my timing right? Can I start tackling the weeds now and still have time to seed before winter?

Finally - what seed should I be looking at? Zone 5, eastern end of the North Fork of Long Island. I've been told my soil is 'sandy loam', if that means anything. Drainage doesn't seem to be great. I do have an irrigation system, although I'm going to have to extend it since it doesn't cover the area that was previously brush. I'm looking for something that will hold up to traffic (my kids play on the lawn and currently beat the c*ap out of it) and will look good.

Sorry for all the questions but it seems I have more questions than answers after doing my reading. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Pway
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Re: Time to start over - where to start?

Post by Pway » September 3rd, 2019, 5:06 pm

I’d formulate a plan for next year, honestly. It is getting on the late side to seed where you are, let alone starting to kill off weeds then seed. You could probably put down some perennial rye and tenacity and decide next year whether to keep it or renovate. Just my opinion and I’m sure others will weigh in. I’ve learned that lawns are a longer term project and effort than I realized in the past. Good luck in any case!

thatfishguy
Posts: 3
Joined: September 2nd, 2019, 11:40 pm
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: Tall fescue and perennial ryegrass
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Re: Time to start over - where to start?

Post by thatfishguy » September 3rd, 2019, 8:52 pm

Pway wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 5:06 pm
I’d formulate a plan for next year, honestly. It is getting on the late side to seed where you are, let alone starting to kill off weeds then seed. You could probably put down some perennial rye and tenacity and decide next year whether to keep it or renovate. Just my opinion and I’m sure others will weigh in. I’ve learned that lawns are a longer term project and effort than I realized in the past. Good luck in any case!
Thanks - I did consider that, seeing as I'm currently in year five of 'formulate a plan for next year' :banghead:

Is it possible to put down herbicide like Tenacity and seed at the same time (or shortly after)? I'm not looking for perfection, but a quick glance of my lawn revealed it was about 50% clover. I could do without so much of that.

Pway
Posts: 771
Joined: May 29th, 2014, 5:42 pm
Location: Piscataway NJ
Grass Type: Northern Mix
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Re: Time to start over - where to start?

Post by Pway » September 4th, 2019, 7:44 am

Yes, you can seed and put down Tenacity. Be sure to follow the label. I would not use any other herbicide now if you Seed. I’d try to get the seed down as soon as possible.

schreibdave
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Re: Time to start over - where to start?

Post by schreibdave » September 4th, 2019, 8:23 am

Welcome to the forum.

I grew up in Manhattan and had never even operated a lawn mower until I was in my late 20s - 25 years ago. I think there is an advantage being new to lawn care as an adult - we don't have any of the bad habits handed down by our fathers and grandfathers.

My first bit of advice is to disregard anything your friends and neighbors tell you about lawn care. And absolutely ignore anything you are told at the local hardware store. Based on your first post here you already know way more than any of those people.

As to your plan, I think it's good - just a little late in the season. If I were you I would hustle to kill off the easy to kill weeds with Weed B Gone in a hose end sprayer, put down a "northern mix" of Kentucky Blue Grass, Perennial Rye and Fine Fescue, and cover with some peat moss. Depending on the weather - use your irrigation system to keep the seed moist and hope for a late onset of cold temps. You could maybe increase the likelihood of successful germination by using all PR which will establish more quickly. Then reassess in spring. Your newly seeded areas will not likely match your existing lawn for color, growth rate, etc but at least it will be green grass. I think the Weed b Gone label says to wait a week before putting seed down, so you would run the risk of the herbicide doing some damage. I think you have to pick your poison.

Maybe next year get started earlier and you can kill off all of what you have, reseed the whole yard at one time and get a more consistent look.

Your soil test will tell you whether you need to add phosphorus and/or potassium - all of my upstate NY soils have been deficient in both. Or possibly lime to raise the PH. My soil PH has always been too high - a problem for which there is no practical solution.

Good luck!


thatfishguy
Posts: 3
Joined: September 2nd, 2019, 11:40 pm
Location: Long Island, NY
Grass Type: Tall fescue and perennial ryegrass
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Time to start over - where to start?

Post by thatfishguy » September 7th, 2019, 5:52 pm

schreibdave wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 8:23 am
Welcome to the forum.

I grew up in Manhattan and had never even operated a lawn mower until I was in my late 20s - 25 years ago. I think there is an advantage being new to lawn care as an adult - we don't have any of the bad habits handed down by our fathers and grandfathers.

My first bit of advice is to disregard anything your friends and neighbors tell you about lawn care. And absolutely ignore anything you are told at the local hardware store. Based on your first post here you already know way more than any of those people.

As to your plan, I think it's good - just a little late in the season. If I were you I would hustle to kill off the easy to kill weeds with Weed B Gone in a hose end sprayer, put down a "northern mix" of Kentucky Blue Grass, Perennial Rye and Fine Fescue, and cover with some peat moss. Depending on the weather - use your irrigation system to keep the seed moist and hope for a late onset of cold temps. You could maybe increase the likelihood of successful germination by using all PR which will establish more quickly. Then reassess in spring. Your newly seeded areas will not likely match your existing lawn for color, growth rate, etc but at least it will be green grass. I think the Weed b Gone label says to wait a week before putting seed down, so you would run the risk of the herbicide doing some damage. I think you have to pick your poison.

Maybe next year get started earlier and you can kill off all of what you have, reseed the whole yard at one time and get a more consistent look.

Your soil test will tell you whether you need to add phosphorus and/or potassium - all of my upstate NY soils have been deficient in both. Or possibly lime to raise the PH. My soil PH has always been too high - a problem for which there is no practical solution.

Good luck!
Thanks dave! I'm going to give it a run, the worst case I'm out some money on seed.

If I were to revisit this in the spring - what's the timing I'm looking at? I had believed that I was right on time for this now, and it looks like I was way off. The kicker is since it's a seasonal home, I spent most of my time there the past few weeks, so I would have been right there and able to do all the hands on work I needed, rather than having to go back and forth like I will now. If I shoot for spring, is there any particular date or temp I should be looking at to kick things off?

Also - I know nothing of aerating. Last year, after a mow I borrowed a dethatcher from a neighbor and ran it across the yard on his feedback, but I don't think it did much (it did pull up a bunch of dead grass). I've seen aerating mentioned here, is that a fall activity or better reserved to the spring?

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andy10917
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Re: Time to start over - where to start?

Post by andy10917 » September 7th, 2019, 8:01 pm

I've seen aerating mentioned here, is that a fall activity or better reserved to the spring?
It is best reserved for two years after you're dead.

schreibdave
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Re: Time to start over - where to start?

Post by schreibdave » September 7th, 2019, 9:34 pm

Late summer is really the time to establish a lawn. Mother nature will help with more rain and cooler temps and less weed pressure. If u have to put seed down in spring, the earlier the better. U want to try to get it established early so it will better survive the heat of summer.

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