'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » May 10th, 2020, 9:21 pm

This week I've been spraying Triclopyr at 8mls per gallon of water. It seems to be pretty effective against the dandelions, chickweed and now the violets are turning yellow as well. This is my third spray. Each week I've been dropping Menards Natural fertilizer in front at bag rate, and urea in the rear lawn at .50lbs per K. I picked up a used Troybuilt TB230 725EX 190cc. Does anyone have any experience with this mower? This yard is really steep and hilly to the rear and I don't know what the long term best way to mow it is. I've read that zero turn mowers can get away from your control on hills, and maybe cant go up them either? Finally warm weather is set to show up late this coming week. Can anyone comment on if it is a good idea to spike the Triclopyr with urea?

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 5th, 2020, 5:37 pm

I think I'm winning the weed battle. One month ago it took 22 gallons of Triclopyr to spot spray weeds. This week it took 8. The dandelions are gone, the chickweed withering, creeping Charlie turning brown, and plantains shriveling. I have been applying Milorganite/Milorganite imitation bag rate on a weekly basis and mowing about every other day. Front and back the lawn has really thickened up. The seed I sowed dormant has filled in quite a few bare places. In the front where I sowed a contemporary blue grass I see lots of spots of bluish grass coming in. In 8 weeks there has been quite a transformation. Last weekend I applied Stagreen Fast acting Gypsum at the high rate for the 2nd time. Lots of holes in the lawn and I hope to fill them in soon before I break an ankle. Here are some pictures.
Image This is the front today.
Image This the rear lawn. Lots of bare dirt showing. If I can keep the crab grass at bay, I plan to sow Mazama as an overseed in August. There is a lot of TTTF in the rear, I'm hoping it's not KY31.
Image I set up an espalier system for the pear tree I chopped off earlier. It is sending out 'hundreds' of water spouts. I'll see if I can tame them and then graft known varieties. Including some perry pears. The espalier arms will allow me 14 varieties if the tree cooperates.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 8th, 2020, 8:15 pm

Today I cracked open my new bottle of Quinclorac. I mixed it together. with tenacity. I have some areas of nimblewill and some crabgrass is sprouting. I thought I could hit both with one stroll through the yard. I mixed two gallons but should have mixed four. I'm hitting plantain and creeping charlie as well. I put down urea on the rear lawn, it is supposed to be big rain storms the next two days. Shot my pear tree with diatomaceous earth because aphids are showing up, with their ant friends. I used MSO as a surfactant. Also there were some weird lime green patches that I hit with Round up. I was afraid it might be Poa Trivialis, but don't really know how to identify it.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 10th, 2020, 6:28 pm

As I become better acquainted with my new yard it seems that I have massive areas of Poa Trivialis. The rear lawn has lots of shade and probably stays damp most of the time.. I can't kill it all because I'll have erosion problems and there is way to much to dig up. I need some suggestions for a game plan. I don't feel any real urgency, I assume it's been their forever. Another complication is that I don't have an irrigation system. Does anyone have some suggestions on how to proceed over a several year Period? Am I better off over seeding with TTTF in the fall, or will KBG compete better with it?

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andy10917
Posts: 29112
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by andy10917 » June 10th, 2020, 7:40 pm

Having fought a 9-year war on Poa Triv, I'll give you this advice: do not underestimate Poa Triv in an environment that favors it. It spreads as rapidly as you can fight it. The herbicide "Certainty" can control it, but only in a narrow period of time of the year, And the "Certainly Syndrome" side effects are bad enough that the manufacturer stopped labeling it for cool-season grasses. There is a new herbicide "PoaCure" that controls it, but it is labeled for golf courses only, very expensive and tightly controlled.

No known grass can "outcompete" it.

For a massive area of Poa Triv, killing and reseeding is probably the only way to defeat it - and the enemy has been repeatedly able to even survive RoundUp applications.

I know that's all terrible news, but I promise you that you'll learn it one way or another - by committing to believe posts like this or by wasting hundreds of hours learning it the hard way.


Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 10th, 2020, 9:01 pm

I have been reading up on 'the battle', and see how round up is used, and then reseed in the fall. But... I have a question. How effective is it to rip it out manually with a de-thatching rake and keep after it as it reappears? I used one on creeping charlie a few years ago and it was extremely effective.

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andy10917
Posts: 29112
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by andy10917 » June 10th, 2020, 9:37 pm

OK - two points (and they seem to conflict (but don't)...

You are still looking for exceptions to the rules. I tried the dethatching option - I actually spread it. And I gathered as much of the "dethatched grass" as I could find into a pile in the woods ON TOP OF THE GROUND FOR THE WINTER. What happened in the Sping? Yup, the PILE WAS GROWING. It's documented here on the Forums - ping me if you can't find it.

But there is an angle. Kill it all *and* a margin around it in mid-July with RoundUp. Anything that comes back up, kill again around August 1st. August 15th reseed. Volia! Renovation.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 10th, 2020, 9:55 pm

Round up it shall be.

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MorpheusPA
Posts: 16463
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by MorpheusPA » June 11th, 2020, 12:09 pm

The only exceptions to the rule I can find is if you happen to have access to high-powered lasers or to tactical thermonuclear warheads.

Even there, the RoundUp is more reliable as the seeds will often survive the heat and concussion.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 12th, 2020, 2:55 am

As I become more familiar with what 'triv' looks like, it is everywhere in the rear 19k 'lawn'. I spotted a few patches in front. I started spraying them with round up yesterday. There is so much, I want to get an early start on it. The areas aren't to hard to spot because there are orangish red stalks left over from last year. Near my pear tree project and tomatoes I'm going to go the de-thatching rake route. So far my wife doesn't know what I'm spraying out there. It looks like lots of KY31 was sown as well. I hate the looks of that stuff, so I'm spraying it too. It is terribly bumpy out there, and hopefully I can level things out after the die off. If erosion becomes an issue, I think I can put burlap down to hold things in place.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 12th, 2020, 8:52 am

I tried the de-thatching rake. Failure. It only removes about 60%.

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turf_toes
Posts: 5636
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 8:46 pm
Location: Central NJ
Grass Type: 77% Blueberry/23% Midnight Star KBG in front. Bewitched KBG monostand in back.
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by turf_toes » June 12th, 2020, 9:03 am

Wait. You’re trying to get rid of poa triv and you thought a dethatching rake would help?

You likely just made your problem worse. You didn’t remove 60 percent of it. You shredded it and spread the problem over a larger area.

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andy10917
Posts: 29112
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by andy10917 » June 12th, 2020, 12:56 pm

TT, I warned of that about 5 postings above.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 12th, 2020, 1:33 pm

Not to worry gentlemen. It was a 30 second experiment and I threw it on concrete. I'll bag it tonight.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 12th, 2020, 9:21 pm

I have vast areas of this stuff (trivialis). Thousands of square feet. I mixed up 4 gallons of round up and started spraying tonight. A few years ago I renovated the yard at my other house, it was primarily creeping charlie and nimble will. I spent days tearing it out manually and then filled and leveled with dirt and reseeded in the fall, so I have some experience. My wife will freak out when she sees everything dying. I have way to much area to water so I'll hope for good and early fall rains. I'll shoot for reseed August 15th.

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turf_toes
Posts: 5636
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 8:46 pm
Location: Central NJ
Grass Type: 77% Blueberry/23% Midnight Star KBG in front. Bewitched KBG monostand in back.
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by turf_toes » June 12th, 2020, 9:54 pm

Good luck. This doesn’t seem to be a good plan. But maybe it will work out for you.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » June 23rd, 2020, 4:01 am

My fall game plan is the following: I have hit the worst areas with roundup. Near my tomatoes and sensitive plants I have started to use Fertilome over the top (Sethoxydim). The Trivialis is extremely well dispersed almost through the entirety of my yard, so I have the following long and short term strategy. 1. Fill in holes and depressions with black dirt over the next 7 weeks. 2. Continue to spray the worst affected areas until there is a good kill. 3. Close to August 15th shave the entire lawn as low as I can mow. 4. Overseed with Mazama or similar KBG varietal. 5. Spread thin layer of compost over the seeded areas. 6.Next year begin to treat with Certainty. I did the shaving thing with compost on my old lawn last year. Initially it looked horrible brown and dead, but as the fall rains and cooler temps came it grew in and now this year looks incredible. As near as I can tell, there is basically no KGB currently in my 'lawn', so I have to get it installed so I can use Certainty next year and thereafter. Interestingly, where I sprayed Triclopyr on broadleaves, it simultaneously almost killed large areas of Trivialis that appear dead prior to roundup etc.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » July 7th, 2020, 8:08 pm

To get ready for August re-seeding, I bought 50 lbs of Mazama KBG today, $4 a pound.
Image
I have been spraying Roundup on the Poa Trivialis areas.
Image

Image

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » July 9th, 2020, 6:34 pm

I bought a 4x100 erosion control blanket for the steepest areas, and my first cubic yard of dirt. One hole took four wheelbarrow loads. It feels good to start getting them filled in.
Image

Image

Image

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » July 14th, 2020, 9:41 pm

This week I've placed 28 wheelbarrow loads of potting soil on my 8,000 sq. ft. front yard, filling holes and low spots. In anticipation of leveling the rear 19k, I scalped it today. It has lots of fescue clumps and now I can see the low places. I'm hoping the mowed grass will decompose in the next month so I don't have to rake it up. I've been mowing at 3.5 inches and there was lots of cuttings. In my spare time I plan to keep on spraying roundup and Sethoxydim (Over The Top Grass Killer). In my spare spare time I'll keep trying to hit weeds with Tenacity and Quinclorac. The rear lawn seems to be about 100% contaminated with trivialis. In the front it is spotty. But big spots.

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