'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
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ken-n-nancy
Posts: 2506
Joined: July 17th, 2014, 3:58 pm
Location: Bedford, NH
Grass Type: Front: KBG (Bewitched+Prosperity); Side: Bewitched KBG; Back: Fine Fescue Blend + Prosperity
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 17th, 2020, 10:23 pm

Glad to hear that you've received the rain needed for germination on such a large area. Renovations without irrigation are quite the challenge.

Can't wait to see pics!

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » September 19th, 2020, 10:59 pm

I'm considering glyphosphating my front lawn tomorrow. Probably 6k of the 8k area is pure poa trivialis. I'm thinking of putting down seed and erosion blankets around the first of December, and see what happens next spring. My rear lawn looks like I got good overall germination with the Mazama KBG and maybe I can shift my attention to the front. Does any one have experience with the erosion blankets the road crews use? Or any idea how much they cost and how many square feet they cover?

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » September 20th, 2020, 8:26 pm

Here are two pictures from today showing the green haze, and a before picture from August 4th. It is really nice having something growing out there again. I applied Roundup to everything green in my front Trivialis-K31 weed patch today as well.
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Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » September 21st, 2020, 4:16 am

This is a photo of the rear lawn from one year ago. Some how I defeated the crabgrass and have very little of it present. Currently it looks like massive amounts of creeping charlie seeds are germinating. They're so small yet that I'm not sure what they are. I sprayed the worst areas with Tenacity yesterday.Image

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » September 21st, 2020, 9:08 pm

I'm pretty encouraged with my seeding. Everyday there is more green showing, it almost looks like I have a lawn (rear lawn). So far it looks like enough general germination that in time it will all fill in. A lot of the soil is horrible sub-soil clay left over from a new septic system 2 years ago. It looks like much has zero percent organic matter, yet it is growing in these areas. Also on the steepest areas and shadiest areas it is coming in nicely. I was worried about both. Yesterday I glyphosphated anything green in my front yard. I located the straw erosion mats that highway crews use. $32 for 112' by 8.5'. 950 square feet per role. That is lots cheaper than Lowes etc. I'm contemplating doing seed down December 1st and covering the entire 8k with these mats.


User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29112
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by andy10917 » September 21st, 2020, 9:48 pm

A lot of the soil is horrible sub-soil clay left over from a new septic system 2 years ago. It looks like much has zero percent organic matter, yet it is growing in these areas.
It's pretty clear that you don't understand the relation between Sand/Silt/Clay, organic matter and TEC. Both Clay and organic matter hold nutrients well and raise TEC. Sand and silt don't. The problem with clay is that it doesn't drain well in higher ratios, and can prevent Oxygen and water from moving through the soil.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » September 22nd, 2020, 4:16 am

Andy I'm ignorant on many subjects. This clay drains well because it is on a pretty steep hillside. I know clay has great potential, this stuff you could fire pottery with it. It just surprised me to see the KBG doing well so far with it. I expected and feared it wouldn't do well. I have been applying the fast acting gypsum you suggested last spring per my soil test, maybe that is helping?

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » September 22nd, 2020, 4:21 am

One thing I forgot to point out about this picture is that upon close examination you will observe the worlds fastest dog. Image

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » September 26th, 2020, 7:55 pm

I bought a Poulan gas powered leaf blower today. I have a giant soft maple that has been shedding leaves and it seems way to soon to try a mower on them. It took around a half hour to blow off the 19k, what a great purchase. I never used one before because my old lawn was to small to justify a leaf blower. $85 at Menards. As a disclaimer, I do not own Menards and won't gain monetarily if someone else buys one.I was going to purchase a battery powered one, but it was cheaper to go with the gas model. https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/o ... -10108.htm

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29112
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by andy10917 » September 26th, 2020, 9:25 pm

Not sure I get why it is too early to mow the leaves....

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » September 26th, 2020, 9:44 pm

Andy Maybe not to early to mow the leaves, but maybe too soon. The new seedlings still seem too delicate to run the mower over them. I think the wheels and blade suction might tear them up and also the chopped leaves would cover them. I might be wrong. I'm saving them for later use. I'm planning on stock piling lots of leaves to be able to use through out the year next season.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29112
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by andy10917 » September 26th, 2020, 9:50 pm

I get it.

Suggestion: chop them up and use them later as partially-composted. On top of everything else, they will have a higher level of bacteria/fungi to digest them and the leaves that follow.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » September 27th, 2020, 10:23 pm

These two pictures are a fair representation of current growth. The seedlings are between 16 and 21 days old. Even in the old trivialis stubble I got enough germination that I believe in time it will fill in nicely. After I seeded down I did no irrigation. The seed just sat there for ten days, then we got six consecutive days of rain. I began to hand irrigate the entire 19k area twice a day, an hour in the am and an hour in the pm until yesterday. I'm very glad that's over with and we are getting about 1/2 inch of rain at this moment. I feel very fortunate to have been this successful with this large of an area and really very little before hand experience. Glad to have it done. Now I can focus on my front 8k (a piece of cake). This entire rear lawn is quite shady, some very shady, so it isn't growing as fast as some full sun renos I'm seeing. I guess I'll find out how much shade the Mazama can handle and where I'll eventually have to plant hostas. What other plants like deep shade in zone 5b?
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User avatar
ken-n-nancy
Posts: 2506
Joined: July 17th, 2014, 3:58 pm
Location: Bedford, NH
Grass Type: Front: KBG (Bewitched+Prosperity); Side: Bewitched KBG; Back: Fine Fescue Blend + Prosperity
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 28th, 2020, 7:23 am

Masbustelo wrote:
September 27th, 2020, 10:23 pm
... I guess I'll find out how much shade the Mazama can handle and where I'll eventually have to plant hostas. What other plants like deep shade in zone 5b?
Image

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Looking good!
Masbustelo wrote:
September 27th, 2020, 10:23 pm
... I guess I'll find out how much shade the Mazama can handle and where I'll eventually have to plant hostas. What other plants like deep shade in zone 5b?
I'm curious to hear some recommendations from others on that, too. I have some areas where I've had lawn which are just too shady for thick grass. Last year, I put a couple hosta into one of those places, and they have done well. I also have a small patch of pachysandra which has done fine, but not spread as fast as I'd like. Looking for more ideas...

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » October 4th, 2020, 7:09 pm

Little by little this rear lawn keeps coming along. When you look out the window or walk on it, it looks like a real lawn. It is filled with thousands of germinating weed seeds, mostly creeping charly and spurge. I spot sprayed tenacity everywhere I saw weeds this week. There is quite a bit of trivialis that is making a comeback. The triv got hit with Tenacity as well, and then today I walked around with the cotton glove/straight glyphosphate trick on any grass that looked like it isn't KBG. I think I have some Sedge and a little fescue as well. The glove soaked in gly-p is much faster than pulling the weed grass. I think if you pull it the roots remain as well. The picture makes that one area look real rough, but it isn't except for what a mole did. I wish the broad leaf weeds were the only problem, but the trivialis I'm sure will be the greater adversary. I also applied the first application of urea and then it rained yesterday. It is supposed to be in the 70's this week.
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Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » October 12th, 2020, 4:39 am

The rear lawn continues to thicken up. I mulched some leaves on it and had to set the mower at about an inch so the leaves didn't escape. So it got cut for the first time. It almost looks like normal turf in places and is darkening up nicely. It is very dry, we've had 6/10 of an inch of rain since September 3rd, but it is supposed to rain this morning. Some of the new grass is really struggling and I started to hand water a few of the worst areas, but maybe it just keeps some areas alive. I dropped urea, one lb. per k, and I'm planning to hit the worst trivialis areas with tenacity again in the next couple of days. The other photo is of the front non-lawn. It has a few green oasis's in it where the Mazama took last September. My plan for the desert part is to aerate it in late November to open up the leftover sod and dead trivialis garbage. Then I plan on overcasting the aerated part with top soil, at which point I'll reseed about December 1st and tie it down for winter with erosion blankets. In the rear areas I've been removing leaves daily that are flooding down from an enormous soft maple. One thing I'm encouraged by is that the Mazama is doing well in the most shady areas. I plan on doing one final drop of fast acting gypsum about November 1st per Andy's recommendation based on my spring soil sample analysis. I think that will be four applications for the year. I was consistent with SOP applications and applied Boron 3 times. I think the potassium helps with fruit set and I got great fruit set on my peppers. I have gallons of hot peppers frozen and soon will ferment them and make Louisiana style hot sauce out of them. The front lawn shows a dead tree which I hope to cut down soon. It's a little tricky. I can't just drop it because 2 of the ways are power lines, one is the house ,a and the last is a giant white oak tree. I'm hoping to run my extension ladder up, rent an extension power chain saw and drop it little by little.

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Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » October 13th, 2020, 3:30 am

:shock: :shock: No rain Yesterday. Except for leaves that have completely buried the new grass.

Masbustelo
Posts: 251
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Green Haze Mazama Rear, Trivialis front
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House old lawn Restoration 2020

Post by Masbustelo » October 18th, 2020, 4:31 pm

For the last several weeks I have been raking, blowing and mulching leaves as best as I have been able. We've had a lot of wind, and I have a giant soft maple that has dropped lots of leaves. I think it isn't too far from being done. The prevailing winds (leeward?) come from a treeless area, so maybe it won't be too bad from here out. I learned last year that the grass really responds well if one keeps the leaves off. Imagine how much light each leaf blocks and multiply that by thousands. The pictures don't do justice. Overall, it keeps filling in and I can see how by May or June it should be looking pretty good. Last week, I bought a sprinkler from Lowes. On the box it said it covers 8,000 sq. ft.. I think maybe 2,000 sq. ft. is more accurate. It was $25 well spent. I used it everyday and things are greening up. Really no rain since September 1st. Today it misted most of the day, which should help. I dropped my second to last urea today, 1lb. per k. My third application. Not one inch of my rear lawn is full sun, so the pics don't look near as impressive as some of the lawns I'm viewing, but the Mazama seems to be filling in like the tortoise gaining on the hare. From here on out my objective is to keep the leaves chopped up , November 1st Fast acting gypsum, and then sometime around Thanksgiving the final urea application. This week, I plan to turn attention to the front non-lawn.
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