FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

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FishMi220
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FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 16th, 2020, 7:36 pm

Ok guys let’s start from the top. Purchased the house 4 years ago and it’s out in the boonies so nobody around here cares about there yards. Most cut it as short as possible about once every couple of weeks. This is my first house and I’ve always respected a nice clean and well maintained lawn and landscaping. I was a total noob when I started and just did the best I can.

What I’ve done so far

I’ve over seeded the front yard with a crappy northern mix I found a menards. Then I stumbled upon a local elevator that supplied seed & and fertilizer and got a soil test from them. Again I’m a noob. The man gave me a rough idea on how to improve the soil based on that. All I really did was use 19-19-19 like he suggested but none of the other amendments he suggested. I really haven’t even followed that completely.

This is what I’m currently working with



It looks decent in the spring and fall and I have been trying to follow the “Triangle Approach” but I haven’t made it past level 1. Trying to do and acre with a 4 gal back pack sprayer and working a lot has it challenges but I’m confident I could do it.

I’m going to be using the same seed as NGB20 And roughly the same plan as him as we both live in Michigan.

Here’s where I’m at now



The ditch is an issue. When it rains it tends to hold water. I would like to get the upper part of the ditch looking good because nobody else on my road cares about theirs and I think it would stand out. So I’m gunna give this a shot and see what happens.
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NGB20
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by NGB20 » June 16th, 2020, 9:37 pm

I like the seed choice, for obvious reasons. It’s my first time trying anything like this. But I feel like sod quality seed give me the best shot at achieving the results I want. We shall see!

I am going to focus my “triangle approach” efforts on the back. There is decent established grass. It has some broadleaf weeds, I’ve found quackgrass and nutsedge. There is also plenty of clover and what looks like wild violet. So I hope to be able to get plenty of practice to transfer to the front when it is ready.

Have you had any luck finding peat moss? Seems like it is getting hard to find in the Flint area, at least at the big box stores.

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andy10917
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by andy10917 » June 17th, 2020, 7:22 am

The second level of the Triangle Approach will take out the identified broadleaves, but start at the 1st Level and work through the levels in order. You'll be surprised at how it cleans things up!

FishMi220
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 17th, 2020, 9:49 am

My brother stopped at menards yesterday and said they were all out. Need to get on it. I have tomorrow off, so I’m going to start gathering supplies. I’ll let you know if I score!!

How alive does my lawn need to be to kill it off?? I’m thinking this week I’m going to tighten up my plan for irrigation.

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andy10917
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by andy10917 » June 17th, 2020, 9:57 am

It needs to be actively growing.


FishMi220
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 17th, 2020, 4:08 pm

Looks like I got some watering to do here pretty soon. Anyone got a thread with suggestions on hose and sprinkler set up? I really don’t have a lot of experience with them. I see some people use in ground sprinkler heads and connect them to lawn spikes. Looks pretty sweet but didn’t know if just impacts would so the job as well. I’ll be using a orbit 4 outlet timer

NGB20
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by NGB20 » June 17th, 2020, 11:13 pm

Yeah, it’s getting to be crunch time. I need to get irrigation nailed down too. I think the impact sprinklers would be too much for my small yard. But I’ll be experimenting over the next few eeeks. I’ll let ya know If I am able to get it situated. What’s a normal watering rate? And what are your opinions on time of watering? Am is the way to go, right?

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MorpheusPA
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by MorpheusPA » June 18th, 2020, 1:45 pm

One inch per week is the nominal rate, but it will vary by local conditions and grass type and establishment. Water in the AM if possible, but given the time required to do a large lawn, it won't be entirely possible. Watering once a week, however, there's not as much need to get hysterical about watering times. And since you're killing the lawn anyway, if it gets sick, well... "The patient got COVID-19 just before execution..."

To be sufficient to take grass down will require somewhat less. It just needs to be green and actively in growth, not incredibly healthy and fully beautiful looking. When I did mine, it was a just-barely sort of thing, but I don't recommend that.

Impacts can (one of my favorite sprinklers is an impact), but if you're looking to cover a large area with a single sprinkler...that's probably not going to be doable with any hose-based sprinkler at all. Hoses can deliver 8 to 15 gallons per minute. 0.6 gallons is an inch of water over a square foot. I'd let you do the math, but most people are math-adverse. :-)

Short answer: Water for 1 hour, 20 foot radius. Water for 2 hours, 28 foot radius. Water for 3 hours, 34 foot radius.

I shot a little low on the garden hose. I shot a little low on the gallons per square foot. Let's just do the math at 10 and 0.6 respectively and assume you're in a modest pressure area. It's pretty close for me, actually.

If you want to spend an hour watering (60 minutes), you can deliver 600 gallons. Divide by 0.6 and you get 1000 square feet.

Because circles are made of tasty, tasty pie, and their area is pi*r^2, the circle has a radius of 17.8412 feet.

Since if you blink or a hummingbird flies by, that changes, let's just call it an 18 foot radius, and with a better hose or better water pressure, 20 feet is close enough because that little bit low on an inch doesn't matter.

Because the Universe hates you, area scales at the square of the radius, so it never looks that great. Double the watering time, double the area, increase the radius by the square root of two. So for two hours, the radius increases to 28 feet, roughly. For three hours, 34 feet, roughly. And so on. I'm willing to argue those, of course, as I did rough estimates.

FishMi220
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 18th, 2020, 5:45 pm

Holy smokes. I feel like I need to take a class to understand all that. Maybe we can “zoom” a class. Very in-depth. I will keep it live “ish” before I kill the best I can. Might be making a slight adjustment to the area I’m going to Reno. I put a tuna can down in the yard and am timing how long it takes to fill up to roughly give me an idea. Working with what I got. Picked up some more hose today and plan on buying a few more just trying to spread out my spending. Just a bachelor trying to make his grass look good so the lucky ladies that come over will want to take a little walk with me :yahoo:

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MorpheusPA
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by MorpheusPA » June 18th, 2020, 9:19 pm

If that's your thing, Fish. :-)

The math's really pretty easy* if you just let somebody else do it; on most hoses and impacts, assuming full output and a perfect distribution, you can water about a 20' radius (40' diameter) circle in an hour. Or a 28' radius circle in two hours. Or a 34' radius circle in three hours.

Most sprinklers aren't perfect (the Gilmour Impulse Pattern Master is one of the best I've found if you fiddle with it and you can easily get even non-circle shapes out of it!), but can be rendered pretty close if you know what you're working with.

The other option, of course, is to kill it out early, let it sit fallow, and not water it through July. Zap any weeds that happen to sprout.

* I'm the inverse of 1950's Barbie: "Math is fun." Any problem can be worked through if you break it down into manageable pieces.

FishMi220
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 18th, 2020, 9:57 pm

Hey Morph anything I can learn I’ll use to the best of my abilities. Gotta have guys like you around.

Ok guys. Went and did a little shopping today and liking around at prices. Never realized how much peat moss is. I might have to skip it. I’ve done it before a couple years ago without and it turned out well. I had thin spots but it filled in pretty well. Kinda sucks but you gotta do what you gotta do.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by MorpheusPA » June 18th, 2020, 10:27 pm

You can skip the peat entirely if you need to, or just use it in areas that you noticed burned in your old lawn in sunlight. Most notably, those with southern and southwestern tilts and exposures.

Your lawn area is so large that I can't imagine covering all of it in peat. If I were you, I'd try to assure that the area around the house is done well, while the rest of it is, perhaps, a bit more slapdash if need be. So maybe use the peat in the thirty feet around your home and drive, and skip the rest, or just in the area of the lawn where you entertain (if you do), and so on, to make sure that comes in well. You're less likely to notice issues near the berm than you would, say, near the front door.

One acre, or roughly 44K square feet, is going to require watering at least twice per day when you reno, so...keep that in mind. That's a boatload of watering area and, from the visuals above, relatively rectangular.

And, from the math above, keeping that at an inch a week would require 0.6 g/sq foot * 44,000 square feet = 26,400 gallons of water per week if nature isn't supplying it.

Have you considered xeriscaping (turing part of that into low-water requirement gardens or other stuff)? Don't forget to budget for the renovation water (mine was pricey on 10,000 square feet in an area where water is midrange-cheap and rainfall fairly plentiful), and water requirements for next summer where, even in Michigan, you're likely to need at least some.

FishMi220
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 18th, 2020, 11:06 pm

You’re right it’s a lot of yard for me. I really do need to incorporate some more landscaping to make it easier on myself and dress up the place. I do have a a well so that’s a plus. My plan is to break up my property into manageable sections. I did a Reno on the other side of my front yard 2 years ago. I just put down a sunny mix that my local elevator had. People say it looks great but I just want to see if I can do better. I’ll put up a pic of that. Realistically my grass will not be watered and will probably go dormant in the hot months but that’s fine with me I just want something that I dont have to keep seeding year after year. I really haven’t touched the back part of the property besides working on the “triangle approach” seems to be working.


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FishMi220
Posts: 17
Joined: June 15th, 2020, 4:44 pm
Location: Mid Michigan
Grass Type: Northern Mix
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Level: Some Experience

Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 18th, 2020, 11:17 pm

This is what I started with just been slowly doing more and here’s the seed label I used for that older Reno. I’ll take some pictures of the back yard tomorrow. To give you guys some perspective.



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FishMi220
Posts: 17
Joined: June 15th, 2020, 4:44 pm
Location: Mid Michigan
Grass Type: Northern Mix
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 19th, 2020, 10:02 am

Maybe I should be posting this somewhere else but I’ll post it here first. If I decide to open up a few more landscape beds/ flower beds, what do you guys recommend for a weed barrier? Prodiamine? I’ve never used it. I would mulch over it but just don’t have a lot of time for messing with weeds.

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turf_toes
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by turf_toes » June 19th, 2020, 10:27 am

Preen.

You can get it at any box store.

If you plan to start from scratch I’d also put down a weed barrier. It’s simple to do if it is an empty space.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by MorpheusPA » June 19th, 2020, 11:50 am

Oh, that does look great! So you know how to do a reno and nobody need worry about you too much. :-)

Yep, Preen works. I use Prodiamine because I buy the huge bottle and hit lawn, gardens, and mulched areas all at once in August to keep down the P. annua that sprouts in fall and apply a 9-month layer at that point that runs out the following August or so (winters stop the clock, although I noticed the last winter really didn't and May was a weed pit in the gardens).

FishMi220
Posts: 17
Joined: June 15th, 2020, 4:44 pm
Location: Mid Michigan
Grass Type: Northern Mix
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Level: Some Experience

Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 19th, 2020, 2:33 pm

Ok I have herd of the Preen. I just want something that’s the most cost effective since I have such a large area to manage.

I have an idea of how to do a Reno. I’m sure I have a ton of grassy weeds. That’s where I’m going to really need the help if I wanna step up my game. I enjoy learning how to do this.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by MorpheusPA » June 19th, 2020, 4:47 pm

During the reno, at seed-down, starter with weed preventer or just a spray with Tenacity will keep the weeds down. That's really all you can do at that time; other pre-emergents will also damage the grass seed.

Prodiamine will keep any (well, 99.5%) of the grass seed from sprouting. This would make you...unhappy.

FishMi220
Posts: 17
Joined: June 15th, 2020, 4:44 pm
Location: Mid Michigan
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: FishMi220’s 2020 fall Reno

Post by FishMi220 » June 19th, 2020, 5:20 pm

Oh yeah I know that. I was talking about using the Prodiamine in the landscaping beds.

It’s been very hot and dry in Michigan this week.

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