Slice seeding prep

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
Post Reply
reggie517
Posts: 273
Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
Location: Merrimack NH
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Slice seeding prep

Post by reggie517 » July 13th, 2020, 9:55 pm

So I am slice seeding my lawn in August. I have a couple questions.

1- Should I pull the dead grass with my dethatching rake before I slice seed? I have some large dead spots from grubs and a bad application of clover killer. I also zapped some spots of POA which are the smaller dead spots.

2- Should I aerate the week before. I know some recommend and some don’t. I have some pretty compact soil but it is sandy.

Thanks!


[url=https://postimg.cc/R3gNjjbp/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/KKG1pZQg/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/Yvf4x4NH/url]

northeastlawn
Posts: 1259
Joined: June 1st, 2015, 3:10 pm
Location: S.E. Mass.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by northeastlawn » July 18th, 2020, 2:18 pm

A lot of people on here aren't crazy about disturbing the lawn before you reno or over-seed. If you have POA-Annua or POA-Triv problems you could be bringing the weed seeds to the surface and giving them a head start. So your not going to get a lot suggestions to disturb the soil twice.

Instead of the slice seeding I would defiantly use your de-thatching rake; get ready for a workout and try to thin out the lawn so you see soil. Think about the path the seed needs to make to get good seed-to_soil contact. I always rake in two passes a few times whenever I reno'd.

I have usually watered the lawn real good the night before to get the ground soft almost squishy. I then broadcast the seed and roll it in with a weighted roller. Thats all I had to do to get decent seed-to-soil contact. Some people done;t even roll the seed, but for water reason i have noticed better germination the areas that get stepped on and compacted while moist.

If you are going to use a slit seeder, just realize in the cheaper models you can rent, your sometimes better off broadcasting the seed after. Your essential just power raking the lawns and then seeding with your spreader. But that does not disturb the soil. The cheaper models just vibrate a plate and don't do a good job spreading teh seed.

The professional expensive slit seeders actually drop a seeds in the slits they create. if your not using open off those I would just spread the seed after.

reggie517
Posts: 273
Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
Location: Merrimack NH
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by reggie517 » July 18th, 2020, 9:16 pm

[quote=northeastlawn post_id=341892 time=1595096319 user_id=5185]
A lot of people on here aren't crazy about disturbing the lawn before you reno or over-seed. If you have POA-Annua or POA-Triv problems you could be bringing the weed seeds to the surface and giving them a head start. So your not going to get a lot suggestions to disturb the soil twice.

Instead of the slice seeding I would defiantly use your de-thatching rake; get ready for a workout and try to thin out the lawn so you see soil. Think about the path the seed needs to make to get good seed-to_soil contact. I always rake in two passes a few times whenever I reno'd.

I have usually watered the lawn real good the night before to get the ground soft almost squishy. I then broadcast the seed and roll it in with a weighted roller. Thats all I had to do to get decent seed-to-soil contact. Some people done;t even roll the seed, but for water reason i have noticed better germination the areas that get stepped on and compacted while moist.

If you are going to use a slit seeder, just realize in the cheaper models you can rent, your sometimes better off broadcasting the seed after. Your essential just power raking the lawns and then seeding with your spreader. But that does not disturb the soil. The cheaper models just vibrate a plate and don't do a good job spreading teh seed.

The professional expensive slit seeders actually drop a seeds in the slits they create. if your not using open off those I would just spread the seed after.
[/quote]

Thanks for the great tips. I was actually going to have a local landscaping company do the slice seeding and I am providing the seed. I am waiting to hear back on what type of machine they use. I was thinking of trying the slice seeding to see if I get better germination then the broadcast seeding I have been doing.

I was going aerate but probably not now as I don’t want any more POA. I did buy enough seed to broadcast some of the really bare areas after they slice seed as well.

I have verified that they do passes in different directions and I have 50# of seed for them to use on 9k sq ft which I think should be enough. It is 80/20 TTTF/KBG.

I am hoping with a professional doing it soil disturbance will be minimal. I decided against doing it my self as I heard the rental
Machines aren’t great and I have no idea what I would be doing.

Any other thoughts or opinions or tips? I do like the sound of drenching they lawn the night before I overseed I haven’t done that in my previous overseeding.

Green
Posts: 6837
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 10:53 pm
Location: CT (Zone 6B)
Grass Type: KBG, TTTF, TTPR, and FF (various mixtures)
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by Green » July 18th, 2020, 10:05 pm

If they have a good machine, it's viable. But most of the ones you rent are Blue, and are nothing more than vertical mowers...they are notorious for not dropping seed correctly, so the trick is to use a spreader to apply the seed after running the machine. There are some bigger, heavier machines by another brand (usually green) that do a better job. That's what the pros hopefully use. They're harder to find for rental.

reggie517
Posts: 273
Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
Location: Merrimack NH
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by reggie517 » July 18th, 2020, 10:37 pm

[quote=Green post_id=341903 time=1595124322 user_id=2313]
If they have a good machine, it's viable. But most of the ones you rent are Blue, and are nothing more than vertical mowers...they are notorious for not dropping seed correctly, so the trick is to use a spreader to apply the seed after running the machine. There are some bigger, heavier machines by another brand (usually green) that do a better job. That's what the pros hopefully use. They're harder to find for rental.
[/quote]

Thanks I am waiting to hear back from them on what it is will post when I have the info.


northeastlawn
Posts: 1259
Joined: June 1st, 2015, 3:10 pm
Location: S.E. Mass.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by northeastlawn » July 19th, 2020, 9:07 am

Just be aware, a lot of landscapers are using the same equipment we can rent ourselves. Thats probably why so many of us end up doing it ourselves.

I wouldn't be scared off by the machine if its the right model, there are plenty of Youtube videos that give you an idea of how to use it. If you watch a few videos you will see what we are talking about when we say the vibrated plate does a poor job of spreading the seeds on the rental models.

Doing an over-seed or reno is not rocket science; its actually easy when you know the steps and understand them, but it is a ton of work. The problem is once you know all the steps, you end up being hesitant to trust them to a landscaper who isn't going to do it as carefully as you would.

If you do a good job of clearing the old dead grass out; drench the soil the night before, then rent a steel hand roller to press the seeds into the soil you can get good seed-to-soil contact. After that spraying tenacity; covering it with peat moss, and having way to do a short watering to keep it wet 4 times a day is the key to success. Even the peat moss is optional, but many people think it gives you a safety factor if you can't water as much.

The slit seeders do have a place on steep slopes and do gaurentee good seed-to-soil contact, but this kind of machines are tough to find. I could never find one in my area, and most landscapers I asked just told me they go to the same rental shops to rent one when they get a job that needs one.

The one piece of equipment I grabbed that saved a ton of time was a compost spreader to spread the peat moss. I have done a bunch of renos for family, and that just makes the peat moss process go so much easier.

reggie517
Posts: 273
Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
Location: Merrimack NH
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by reggie517 » July 19th, 2020, 4:51 pm

[quote=northeastlawn post_id=341908 time=1595164034 user_id=5185]
Just be aware, a lot of landscapers are using the same equipment we can rent ourselves. Thats probably why so many of us end up doing it ourselves.

I wouldn't be scared off by the machine if its the right model, there are plenty of Youtube videos that give you an idea of how to use it. If you watch a few videos you will see what we are talking about when we say the vibrated plate does a poor job of spreading the seeds on the rental models.

Doing an over-seed or reno is not rocket science; its actually easy when you know the steps and understand them, but it is a ton of work. The problem is once you know all the steps, you end up being hesitant to trust them to a landscaper who isn't going to do it as carefully as you would.

If you do a good job of clearing the old dead grass out; drench the soil the night before, then rent a steel hand roller to press the seeds into the soil you can get good seed-to-soil contact. After that spraying tenacity; covering it with peat moss, and having way to do a short watering to keep it wet 4 times a day is the key to success. Even the peat moss is optional, but many people think it gives you a safety factor if you can't water as much.

The slit seeders do have a place on steep slopes and do gaurentee good seed-to-soil contact, but this kind of machines are tough to find. I could never find one in my area, and most landscapers I asked just told me they go to the same rental shops to rent one when they get a job that needs one.

The one piece of equipment I grabbed that saved a ton of time was a compost spreader to spread the peat moss. I have done a bunch of renos for family, and that just makes the peat moss process go so much easier.
[/quote]
Now you have me wondering if I should save my $350 for the slice seeding and use it buy more seed and apply at 10#/sq. I have never soaked the lawn before hand but now that you describe it the way you did it makes total sense. Decisions decisions!

northeastlawn
Posts: 1259
Joined: June 1st, 2015, 3:10 pm
Location: S.E. Mass.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by northeastlawn » July 19th, 2020, 5:22 pm

If your over-seeding or doing a reno, now is the time to plan your watering. You need to water it 3-4 times a day, so you should either have irrigation, or plan on some type of battery powered hose end timer. So if your truly watering by hand, you have to realize thats difficult to do.

Also don't discount how hard it is rake the lawn a few times. I always raked when I scalped it once in each direction. Then the day before. Depending on the area, it can be a lot of work until you start seeing soil popping through the old grass.

There is a school of though of just power raking it, then spreading your seed, and then rolling it.

Tons of different ways to go. its just understanding that the seed has to get to the soil and compressed into to it to make good contact. After that its just keeping it moist until it sprouts.

reggie517
Posts: 273
Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
Location: Merrimack NH
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by reggie517 » July 19th, 2020, 5:38 pm

[quote=northeastlawn post_id=341913 time=1595193742 user_id=5185]
If your over-seeding or doing a reno, now is the time to plan your watering. You need to water it 3-4 times a day, so you should either have irrigation, or plan on some type of battery powered hose end timer. So if your truly watering by hand, you have to realize thats difficult to do.

Also don't discount how hard it is rake the lawn a few times. I always raked when I scalped it once in each direction. Then the day before. Depending on the area, it can be a lot of work until you start seeing soil popping through the old grass.

There is a school of though of just power raking it, then spreading your seed, and then rolling it.

Tons of different ways to go. its just understanding that the seed has to get to the soil and compressed into to it to make good contact. After that its just keeping it moist until it sprouts.
[/quote]

I have irrigation so that isn’t an issue unless we still have our watering ban which I will have to delay the Reno.

I also was thinking of using the scotts granular with tenacity in it rather that spray the lawn with it. Either option work better?

northeastlawn
Posts: 1259
Joined: June 1st, 2015, 3:10 pm
Location: S.E. Mass.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by northeastlawn » July 20th, 2020, 10:22 am

Actually I have done both; I have always sprayed mixed Tenacity on mine, but when doing a family's reno i don't feel like mixing extra Tenacity at their house so have them use the starter fertilizer with weed control (Mesotrione). Both seemed to work well, just make sure you check the bag and it says Mesotrione in the ingredients.

Good luck with however you decide to go...

reggie517
Posts: 273
Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
Location: Merrimack NH
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by reggie517 » July 20th, 2020, 11:36 am

[quote=northeastlawn post_id=341921 time=1595254977 user_id=5185]
Actually I have done both; I have always sprayed mixed Tenacity on mine, but when doing a family's reno i don't feel like mixing extra Tenacity at their house so have them use the starter fertilizer with weed control (Mesotrione). Both seemed to work well, just make sure you check the bag and it says Mesotrione in the ingredients.

Good luck with however you decide to go...
[/quote]

Thanks I appreciate all the help!

Couple of questions, if I do use peat moss do you just get it from Home Depot? I feel like that is a lot of moss, but then again I have irrigation so maybe I will skip that.

Also what about one of those tow behind de thatchers rather then hand rake? I am hesitant to use those as I feel like they rip the lawn apart...

Thanks!

northeastlawn
Posts: 1259
Joined: June 1st, 2015, 3:10 pm
Location: S.E. Mass.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by northeastlawn » July 20th, 2020, 3:17 pm

As far as the peat moss; I have never seen it sold loose in bulk. I believe its a product of Canada and sold in, Sm, Md, Lg, and XL sizes. i always look for the XL 5.5cf bails. They get you the most bang for your buck. I always figure on spreading a 1/4" down, so that would be....

LxWx(0.25/12)=X, where X was the amount of CF you need, the CF are marked on the bails. the peat moss is compressed so it does cover more than it looks.

I also always assume for 1.5 times the amount I need. You will tend to loose peat moss and have to reapply after rain storms and such.

I have noticed areas where the seed gets compressed into the ground come in better than areas that don't, and I have always found that areas that got peat moss and kept moist, seemed to come in better than areas where the peat moss blew away. seed will one in without peat moss, but when it dried out its an indicator of when you need to run the sprinklers.

I can't comment on the detahacthing, i have always just dethatched by hand or really just raked hard by hand. The idea is just to scratch up the surface so the seed makes good contact.

I know you're disturbing the ground, but if your not seeing the ground through the grass, then the chances of seed getting through is a lot less.

Nothing says you have to do it all in a day; you can rake hard the day before, water, then rake again just before seed down. You can read the work over a few days. Thats what i always did since your doing this stuff in August :-)

roblanderson
Posts: 78
Joined: May 12th, 2014, 10:36 am
Location: Bloomington, IL
Grass Type: Nomix
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by roblanderson » July 21st, 2020, 1:31 pm

northeastlawn wrote:
July 19th, 2020, 9:07 am
The one piece of equipment I grabbed that saved a ton of time was a compost spreader to spread the peat moss. I have done a bunch of renos for family, and that just makes the peat moss process go so much easier.
What equipment specifically did you use to spread the peat moss? I'm trying to find something to make that process easier.

reggie517
Posts: 273
Joined: July 14th, 2015, 11:37 am
Location: Merrimack NH
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by reggie517 » July 21st, 2020, 1:46 pm

[quote=roblanderson post_id=341940 time=1595352682 user_id=3652]
[quote=northeastlawn post_id=341908 time=1595164034 user_id=5185]
The one piece of equipment I grabbed that saved a ton of time was a compost spreader to spread the peat moss. I have done a bunch of renos for family, and that just makes the peat moss process go so much easier.
[/quote]

What equipment specifically did you use to spread the peat moss? I'm trying to find something to make that process easier.
[/quote]

It is a compost spreader. Some Home Depots rent them but none of them near me. It almost looks like lawn roller but it is almost like a cage. You pur the moss in and roll it and it sifts through.

northeastlawn
Posts: 1259
Joined: June 1st, 2015, 3:10 pm
Location: S.E. Mass.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by northeastlawn » July 21st, 2020, 2:17 pm

Im not sure i have ever seen one of these at a rental shop, but they are called Compost Spreaders....

https://shop.grangecoop.com/products/to ... xcu-S2z1yo

I have no idea how that place is, just used the link for the picture.

They are kind of hard to find even on the internet and the latch design usually fails and you have to resort to zip ties to keep it closed, but once you get the hang of it, it makes spreading peat moss much easier. It does use more peat moss than if you spread it by hand, but it goes very fast after you get the hang of it.

I think I once figured one XL bail (5.5cf) cover about 1,000sf, but in practicality if you cut a Lg bail in half, half a Lg bail fits perfectly in the spreaders w/o having to shovel it in. The convince of quickly loading the spreader makes up for the increased price per bail.

Renting a roller is probably the 1st thing you may have to rent, but a close 2nd is compost spreader if you plan on using peat moss.

roblanderson
Posts: 78
Joined: May 12th, 2014, 10:36 am
Location: Bloomington, IL
Grass Type: Nomix
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Slice seeding prep

Post by roblanderson » July 21st, 2020, 3:18 pm

Thank you!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests