'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 29th, 2021, 7:59 pm

I've started to overspray the entirety of the front and rear lawn with the tenacity solution. I've come to realize that poa annua and triialis have so many forms and at at some ages of growth it is almost impossible to know if it is KBG or other.
I put 10 gallons on 19k, so I am applying about a 1/4 rate. With mowing about every three days, I am spraying the triv twice weekly more or less. It is visually disappearing in the rear lawn that was established last fall. The rear lawn is looking good. This is very encouraging.
Where there was heavy triv infestation early this spring, you can see the KBG filling in as the triv fades away. The KBG continues to establish itself in the front lawn. Even though there is tons of triv, I feel at least for now I have the upper hand.
One curiosity is that since I started using DMSO the moles have disappeared. I put the traps away today. They might not like the odor and taste.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » June 7th, 2021, 4:47 am

Two days ago we transitioned from spring to summer overnight. It went from 60-70 degree weather to close to 90's everyday, for two weeks forecasted. Here are some pictures of where I ended up at the end of spring.
This is a photo of the rear lawn. This was seeded last August but didn't really emerge until September. It has really established itself. It is a pleasure visually, and to walk on. I still am hitting it with a light misting of Tenacity and some areas still 'light' up. It recieved 3/4 pound of Nitrogen this spring. I'm not planning anymore until late August.
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This photo is my front lawn. This was dormant seeded December 1st 2020. It has done well this spring. I didn't know what to expect, and got very uniform establishment. The color is great and each mowing there is less height variation. It still looks rough, but the color is great. One surprise is that the Mazama has done great in some very shady areas that I hadn't imagined would grow grass. I plan to water it to an inch each week. I did give it an inch this week. There is still lots of trivialis trying to establish itself and lots of stuff still lighting up in areas. I should be in great shape by mid-October.
Image I was reading another thread that discussed the idea of applying sawdust. I have a high end cabinet shop near me that uses very little plywood, mostly pine, oak and walnut. They have large piles of sawdust all over the place. I hauled 5 cubic yards of it this week and mulched my flower beds, bushes and fruit trees with it. I put down 2.5 yards on the front lawn. Among other benefits it should behave as a micro mulch for the lawn as well, perhaps I won't lose so much water in soil evaporation. The owner came out and asked me to keep coming back. It's only five minutes from my home.
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MorpheusPA
Posts: 17475
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by MorpheusPA » June 7th, 2021, 3:51 pm

One minor risk of sawdust due to the particle size is that it'll go dry and refuse to get wet again. If that happens, spray with just a bit of soap. That'll solve it. You can also get some nasty insect and slug/snail problems in very large amounts of it, but that's unlikely unless you really piled it on.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » June 7th, 2021, 4:26 pm

It seems like you have to be a little careful to not smother the grass. Like any wise turf manager I went around with a kitchen broom to break it up a little. Thanks for the soap tip.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » June 21st, 2021, 8:20 pm

This photo is my front lawn which germinated 8 weeks ago. It finally is almost a uniform height. Good genetics is something to see. I'm kind of amazed at what it has done in two months. I've been giving it an inch per week. There are hardly any weeds evident. The trivialis has gone into hiding.
Image My son in law installed a beehive mid May.

Image Around the perimeter of the yard I have set two traps to see if a swarm might move in.

Image


DevilDawg81
Posts: 461
Joined: April 11th, 2017, 7:09 pm
Location: Columbus, OH
Grass Type: KBG, PRG, Fescue mix
Lawn Size: 2 acre-5 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by DevilDawg81 » June 22nd, 2021, 8:52 pm

Your lawn is looking great. I have two hives out back and at times I feel guilty converting things over to great turf.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » June 23rd, 2021, 11:15 pm

Devildawg I'm getting ready to dig some up for next years tomatoes. I have mixed feelings about it. 50 square feet per plant. But I only plant two plants per year. Post a picture of your hives please.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » June 27th, 2021, 2:33 am

I have an area beneath a giant soft maple tree to the rear of my house (that my wife loves) with quite a bit of powdery mildew. I have sort of kept an eye on it hoping with summer temperatures maybe it would go away. If anything it has grown and the grass looked sickly. Thursday I purchased a little one gallon sprayer and some fungicide and then sprayed the area. It looks better all ready. I plan to respray every 7 days until the problem clears up.
Yesterday I noticed a small spot of powdery mildew has shown up in my front yard where I have a large white oak tree. A little 2 x 3 foot area.
Thursday night it rained two inches. So my spring flush continues. I mowed thursday and have to mow again later today. My front lawn where I spread sawdust has suddenly popped mushrooms all over in the heat, rain and humidity. I wish they were edible. Who knows maybe they are?
Does anyone know where I can buy a cheap four foot wand for my cheap one gallon plastic sprayer? I live on a busy highway and my front lawn looks almost embarassingly good. A deep verdant green. Everyone else that lives near me shaves their grass very low and it has gotten burnt up by the sun and bleached out as it has entered dormancy.
I'm mulch mowing at 3.5 inches and the difference is striking. My front 8k lawn stands out like it's on steroids, and as far as I can remember I hit it once mid May with Menardsanite and thats it. This is KBG that sprouted April 23rd with 42 degree soil temperatures. The seed went down December 1st.
Thanks to the information and advice gained on this website, last year I applied fast acting gypsum,compost, chopped leaves, SOP, and Boron faithfully last year and it really is paying off this year.

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andy10917
Posts: 29588
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by andy10917 » June 27th, 2021, 8:50 am

Does anyone know where I can buy a cheap four foot wand for my cheap one gallon plastic sprayer?
Since I'm 6' 6" tall, I've faced that issue more than once. Do you have a Tractor Supply ("TSC") near you? I've gotten the parts there cobbled together to make a wand that works fine.
I live on a busy highway and my front lawn looks almost embarassingly good. A deep verdant green. Everyone else that lives near me shaves their grass very low and it has gotten burnt up by the sun and bleached out as it has entered dormancy.
Just more evidence that when "everybody does it" is not a guarantee of a good practice. Sometimes "everybody" is wrong.

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MorpheusPA
Posts: 17475
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
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Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by MorpheusPA » June 27th, 2021, 3:08 pm

Second vote for Tractor Supply. If not, a Lowe's may be able to help you.

Look online if not. The search "telescope wand for sprayer" turns up many results of many lengths. At more like five foot nine, I've had the need. Now ask about my friend Christopher who's five two.

DevilDawg81
Posts: 461
Joined: April 11th, 2017, 7:09 pm
Location: Columbus, OH
Grass Type: KBG, PRG, Fescue mix
Lawn Size: 2 acre-5 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by DevilDawg81 » June 27th, 2021, 7:06 pm

Masbustelo wrote:
June 23rd, 2021, 11:15 pm
Devildawg I'm getting ready to dig some up for next years tomatoes. I have mixed feelings about it. 50 square feet per plant. But I only plant two plants per year. Post a picture of your hives please.
Here you are. My 8-frame hive is doing really well, the 10-framer is very slow drawing comb.


Image

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Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » June 28th, 2021, 9:15 pm

Devildawg81, Those are nice stands. My bees apparently dont like the plastic foundation we gave them. Very little comb also and they are building cross comb, to avoid it I guess. We put a chicken waterer for sugar water inside on top, with an extra 'deep' box to hide it.
Andy,Here we have Farm and Fleet stores. I'll check them for longer wands. I'm six foot and I was all bent over too. I need a proper tip also.

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andy10917
Posts: 29588
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by andy10917 » June 28th, 2021, 9:17 pm

The secret to a good tip is Brass - hands down.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » June 28th, 2021, 9:20 pm

For anyone reading this, I really like this spray tip. Andy Is there a link somewhere for brass tips? https://www.amazon.com/TeeJet-AI11004-V ... 451&sr=8-1
Image

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » July 19th, 2021, 2:58 am

Temperature wise we are having a nice summer with lots of rain.

This is my first renovation and I continue to be surprised as the KBG continues to fill in. For those reading this contemplating a renovation, I want to say a few things. Last year was a droughty, hot summer. I started with roundup fairly early in June and by mid August I had 27,000 feet of bare, brown desert.

I worried that I was in way over my head and without irrigation wondered if I would be able to recover. People asked my daughter if her father hated grass. I did my best to prepare a seedbed.
I raked out huge areas that had mats of dead poa trivialis an inch thick. This entire yard front and back was a trivialis turf farm. It had gone unchallenged for decades.

I also had large areas of dead trivialis mats that I gave up on. Too hot in 90's and sun, so I covered them with compost and hoped for the best. These areas failed and I had to reseed in December.

I seeded around mid August and then it didnt rain for almost three weeks. I was getting nervous but in September we got six inches of rain in one week. An inch a day for a week. Nice and cool, I knew I was in business.

After this rain we didn't get any more for quite a while, so I had to water. My property is too large and diverse to set up multiple hoses etc., and not enough water pressure. So 2-3 times a day I would hand water thousands of square feet, taking about an hour per day. Those areas all made it and came through the winter in great shape.

There was about 8,000 k that didnt take, mosty in front, so late fall I aerated to punch through the trivialis matts and re-applied compost. Then I reseeded December 1st. I was insecure about that dormant seeding, thinking if it failed I would go through all this summer with a bare dirt front yard. I got very good germination last April and it looks great today a few short months later.

I sprayed prodiamine in the rear last spring and am mostly weed free with the exception of lurking trivialis and some remnant fescue that pops up here and there. In a few weeks I plan to blanket spray prodiamine on the entirety of lawn using my Solo backpack sprayer.

The front lawn that was dormant sowed initially had lots of broad leaf weeds and tons of trivialis that was probably spread when I aerated. I really went after the trivialis last spring with Tenacity, any where and every where I spotted trivialis or annua. (I had lots of annua). The Tenacity was very effective on both the poas and in the process I knocked out lots of front yard broad leaf weeds in the December seeding.

At one point I really didn't like all the weeds in front so I mixed Triclopyr at a 50% solution and sprayed once. I wanted it weak so it wouldn't kill the new grass, and it basically wiped out all the broadleaves. So I have virtually no weeds evidencing at this point. I know there is definately trivialis lurking, but I also know I'll kick it's butt this fall if it rears up. Tenacity had to have been a game changer when it showed up. It is a great offense against nimblewill and the poas. I wouldn't use it for much else.

I'm posting some pictures, not to brag, but maybe encourage others. I see on other forum people posting about all kinds of name brand fertilizers and expensive obscure additives. I've used none of these. I have only applied 3/4 pound nitrogen per k this year. None after May 30th.

It seems everyone wants a dark green luxurious turf and think the secret comes in a bag. It may or may not, but probably doesn't. Last year according to my soil test and Andy's suggestions I tweaked my soil deficiencies. I put down SOP, Boron, and gypsum on bare brown dead sod, that literally caught fire once. It looked a little crazy, fertilizing dead grass. My Ph is relatively high and I ought to have borderline Iron access problems affecting the turf color.

To make a long story short I think the great color showing in my pictures reflects great genetics in an elite cultivar of KGB. I suspect that many chasing a dark luxurious turf are fighting a losing battle because they have old and outdated cultivars. It is similar to trying to win the Kentucky Derby with an old backyard horse.

The newer cultivars have been bred for color, shade resistance, spring greenup, disease resistance (I only have sprayed once, a small area for powdery mildew and it hasn't been back) drought resistance and I suspect herbicide resistance. My point being, until you kill off the old mutt you probably will never have a throughbred. So a complete reno may be the way forward.

Lastly I'm glad I used a monoculture. I only sowed one variety and one cultivar within that species. Even when it needs mowed it is very uniform height and color and never looks straggly. Also from yards away you can spot an invader that doesnt belong. I just wander over, run my fingers through the turf and yank them out by the roots. Very easy to maintain.
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Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » July 19th, 2021, 3:18 am

These are two year old apple trees I planted last year.
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I'm growing cucumbers verticallly on tomato cages.
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I picked up some cabbage plants way to early in April at an Amish store. Some have done pretty good. But note to self, no need to put them in until May 1st next year.
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Woven throughout the yard , I have growing the following that we've planted in the last year: Rhubarb, black and red currant, roses, forsythia, green beans, asparagus, 14 apple trees (two espalier set ups) , pear tree, chiles, strawberry, bees, chard, cilantro, blueberries, chives, oregano, onions, garlic, bush squash, two plum trees, western sand cherry, and lastly tomatoes.

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ken-n-nancy
Posts: 2545
Joined: July 17th, 2014, 3:58 pm
Location: Bedford, NH
Grass Type: Front: KBG (Bewitched+Prosperity); Side: Bewitched KBG; Back: Fine Fescue Blend + Prosperity
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Level: Experienced

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by ken-n-nancy » July 19th, 2021, 4:05 pm

Masbustelo wrote:
July 19th, 2021, 2:58 am
This is my first renovation and I continue to be surprised as the KBG continues to fill in. For those reading this contemplating a renovation, I want to say a few things. ...
Thanks for the write-up. I enjoyed reading about your experiences in this renovation!
Masbustelo wrote:
July 19th, 2021, 2:58 am
Lastly I'm glad I used a monoculture. I only sowed one variety and one cultivar within that species. Even when it needs mowed it is very uniform height and color and never looks straggly. Also from yards away you can spot an invader that doesn't belong. I just wander over, run my fingers through the turf and yank them out by the roots. Very easy to maintain.
I think the above - being able to easily recognize anything that "doesn't belong" as being not-your-grass and hand-pull it immediately -- is a big advantage when comparing a single-species stand to a traditional northern mix.

As to whether the offender is Poa annua, Poa trivialis, fine fescue, ryegrass, nutsedge, goosegrass, tall fescue, orchardgrass or some other type of Kentucky bluegrass -- it doesn't matter. If it looks different, it doesn't matter what it is -- it doesn't belong in the lawn, and can be pulled quick and easy.

I use a gas-powered rotary walk-behind mower, so I usually actually get all these "not like the others" plants while mowing -- it doesn't even add much time to the exercise of mowing, and I just toss the pulled plant onto the unmowed grass, so it gets mulched in immediately -- I don't even need to put the weeds in a bucket or anything.

Oh, and it doesn't necessarily need to be a monoculture, as long as the varieties of grass are very similar. I normally can't distinguish between the Prosperity KBG and Bewitched KBG in my two-way blend of those. The one exception is that the Bewitched KBG (I have a monostand of it on my side lawn) is dreadfully slow to wake up in the spring -- the Prosperity/Bewitched blend wakes up and starts growing a good 2-3 weeks earlier.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » July 19th, 2021, 5:59 pm

ken-n-nancy "I use a gas-powered rotary walk-behind mower, so I usually actually get all these "not like the others" plants while mowing -- it doesn't even add much time to the exercise of mowing, and I just toss the pulled plant onto the unmowed grass, so it gets mulched in immediately -- I don't even need to put the weeds in a bucket or anything". ......I've started doing the same. I've always enjoyed your write ups as well.

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ken-n-nancy
Posts: 2545
Joined: July 17th, 2014, 3:58 pm
Location: Bedford, NH
Grass Type: Front: KBG (Bewitched+Prosperity); Side: Bewitched KBG; Back: Fine Fescue Blend + Prosperity
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by ken-n-nancy » July 22nd, 2021, 8:11 am

Masbustelo wrote:
July 19th, 2021, 5:59 pm
ken-n-nancy "I use a gas-powered rotary walk-behind mower, so I usually actually get all these "not like the others" plants while mowing -- it doesn't even add much time to the exercise of mowing, and I just toss the pulled plant onto the unmowed grass, so it gets mulched in immediately -- I don't even need to put the weeds in a bucket or anything". ......I've started doing the same. I've always enjoyed your write ups as well.
Glad to hear that approach works for you as well! It's nice to be at the point where such hand-pulling is sufficient to keep pace with any newly-germinated weeds!

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