'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » April 22nd, 2021, 6:04 pm

Aparently with a waxing gibbous moon, photos taken at a certain time of day my rear lawn doesn't look too bad. It is coming along. Yesterday it got its first almost real mow. Patches of it look really nice. I put six yards of compost on the worst areas this week.
Image After putting DMSO in with the Tenacity last Sunday, I saw first signs of Trivialis colony collapse today. Some of the colonies are dried and make a crunchy sound when you step on them. Like somehow the water got sucked out of the cell structure. I'm not seeing signs of damage to the Mazama KBG. This weekend I plan to spray again using Tenacity, distilled water, DMSO, Non Ionic surfactant, and 1 tablespoon of Ammonium sulfate per gallon.

Disclaimer: DMSO usage is potentially dangerous. There are 14 pages and 261 search engine comments made about DMSO on this website. I read them all. Anyone else that might use DMSO should also.

(Does ammonium sulfate added to a herbicide mix improve weed control?

Ammonium sulfate (also known as AMS within the adjuvant world) can be quite useful in situations of chemical antagonism, such as when using hard water or when mixing herbicides that are antagonistic among themselves. Ammonium sulfate adjuvant can also be useful under stressful growing conditions, such as cold or droughty weather. For these reasons, several herbicides recommend ammonium sulfate adjuvant use within the label. Always refer to the corresponding herbicide label for specific rate recommendations). https://www.advansix.com/ammoniumsulfat ... d-control/,

User avatar
MorpheusPA
Posts: 17475
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by MorpheusPA » April 22nd, 2021, 7:28 pm

You probably don't need to respray that quickly; the triv, now stressed, won't be down with the sickness and happy to absorb anything right now. And the probability of damaging the KBG rises dramatically with the second spray. I'd be inclined to hold off.

"Disclaimer: DMSO usage is potentially dangerous." It's more than potentially dangerous, when mixed with an organic herbicide, it's always dangerous. Wear long pants, long shirt, impenetrable gloves (latex or nitrile), goggles and face shield. If you spill it on yourself, dilute, dilute, dilute immediately and shower instantly in cold water. Seriously. One cousin of mine has lymphoma from herbicide exposure since toddlerhood. It's currently in remission, but incurable. He's 35. Don't add yourself to that list.

"Does ammonium sulfate added to a herbicide mix improve weed control?"

Some yes, some no. Some it actually deactivates, if they're acid or ammonia sensitive. But there's a reason that I keep several pounds around on my herbicide shelf...

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » April 22nd, 2021, 8:04 pm

Im seeing some new triv patches showing up here and there, maybe I'll hit them and leave the others be for a while. It's encouraging to see where they are collapsing.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » April 23rd, 2021, 8:27 pm

This is what a nice sized portion of my front yard looks like. This is what my wife sees out her kitchen window. Also it is near the road, so what passerbys see as well. Some of these trivialis tufts have been hit 4-5 times with Tenacity. The KBG that is in there seems not to be affected. I'm not naive enough to think the battle is over, but I think I might be winning for the moment. I took this pic today. Surely this colony has to be weakening. 50's and cloudy here for many days now.
Image

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » April 25th, 2021, 8:03 pm

I spot sprayed again today with Tenacity. As my kbg becomes better established and I have a better eye for the trivialis, I spot it trying to sneak in pretty much everywhere. It grows faster and taller than the turf grass. It is also yellow and lime green. Some of the spots that i caught the earliest are definately dead now. I sprayed 20 gallons today. Distilled water, 76 grams Ammonium Sulfate,Tenacity 1/4 Teaspoon, 30mls DMSO, 30mls Lazer tracking dye, and 18.5 NIS, all per gallon. We're supposed to have some days in the 80's this week. I'm curious where I'll be with the trivialis in a week.


Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » April 28th, 2021, 7:24 pm

We're getting a measurable gentle rain at the moment. I think it is the first decent rain in 18 days. My front yard is becoming a lawn. The dormant sowing I did December 1st is a resounding success. I have uniform germination, and after a months growth it is starting to look green (fuzz). I have been watering a little bit, on hot and windy days.
My mole traps have been getting triggered but nothing caught yet, but I think I have a main tunnel identified.
The lawn that was sown last fall has really filled in the last few days and is a deep satisfying dark green. It finally needs a real mow. Just when I went to fire up the mower it started to rain.
A little bit ago I filled up five gallon jugs with dehumidifier water, for the next Trivialis spray.

As far as I can tell none of the triv plants that have been hit 3-4 times have grown or spread. Some have collapsed into powdered mush. Much is bleached very white. It looks bad for now. But the Mazama is coming in all around the dying triv. I think these may be poa annua variety Reptans. I still have new breakouts of trivialis here and there. It was there all of the time lurking, but now it can be spotted. I'm hoping that by fall as a result of an inhospitable growing area the triv will be much weakened. Perhaps with a dense sod grown tall I might win the battle some day.
On the month old sprouts, yesterday, I put down Milorganite at half the bag rate.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » April 30th, 2021, 9:06 pm

I'm apply extra pressure on the mole/moles. They/it has become active again with the warmer weather.
Image
I got my first semi real mow in yesterday. With the lawn uniform and one height suddenly it is starting to look like a lawn. Some of it is thick and luxiorious, which is nice because were in a draught. 4/10 in three weeks.
Image
On the front lawn there is a general green haze from seedlings that hatched five weeks ago. It seems like they got going at about 42 degree soil temperature.
Image

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 2nd, 2021, 7:40 pm

I sprayed my Poa Trivialis again today. Something good must be happening. Last week it took 20 gallons and this week eight gallons. I only sprayed what looked like new or active growth. Now we need rain. It's only rained 4/10 in three weeks. The world mole population continues to avoid my four traps.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 9th, 2021, 9:32 pm

This weekend I scoured the front and rear lawn (with my eyes) and applied 20 gallons of Tenacity, spot spraying trivialis. It is about everywhere I look. Some of it is small plants just getting big enough to identify. Others seem to be dying in the centers and trying to send out runners in a last ditch effort to survive.
It seems easiest to knock back where it shows up in dense bluegrass. The annua and the fine bladed trivialis seem most vulnerable to the spray.
I plan to keep attacking it with Tenacity until it hopefully goes dormant this summer, and then again in the fall. If my best efforts don't produce results come next spring I'll try Certainty next year.
This weekend I also applied Milorganite at 1.25 bag rate to the front 8k would be lawn. The dormant seeding keeps making good progress and we got 1.5 inches of rain last night.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 9th, 2021, 9:46 pm

I see here and there that some of the trivialis is throwing seed heads. I'm looking forward to getting to getting prodiamine down in August and next spring. In the front dormant seedng there is a crapload of plantain and various broadleaf weeds. I give them a shot of tenacity if they look too bad. The day will come when they will meet Mr. Triclopyr.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 12th, 2021, 10:32 pm

I put down another app of Tenacity on the rear 19k today. With a 4 gallon backpack, spot spraying 12 gallons took 4 1/2 hours. Over hill and dale.
It seems that part of what I thought was poa annua might be bentgrass. I don't know if that is good,bad or neutral news? It seems to be really melting away, leaving big dead spots.
All in all the KBG continues to thicken. A visitor yesterday told me it looks great and was it sod? My first compliment after seed down 9 months ago.
For the first time, the back yard is all at about the same heighth. I'm mowing at around 3 inches. Maximum for my rinky dink Troy Bilt 21 inch.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 17th, 2021, 9:03 pm

Today I sprayed Round Up on the last patch of lawn that I haven't tampered with. There is a little 400 square foot section near my drive by the highway out front. It is or was a combination of fine fescue, KBG variety from 60 years ago, TTTF, poa A, Poa T, orchard grass, etc.
It feels odd doing something mid May to prepare for fall already. But the sooner the better. There is a lot of gravel and maybe somehow I can eliminate some of it. I sowed a little Mazama in this area last year, and the old KBG looks anemic next to it.
My next door neighbor has an older variety (Could be 60 years old) KBG lawn that he really works. No weeds and he bag fertilizes. Last year I remember thinking how beautiful it looked (and it does in a way). But as the Mazama keeps establishing itself I can already see it is going to make his look pale.
As I learn more about turf management, I realize that those that don't do soil samples really are guessing at things. It is interesting to me to see the two parallel lawns. I assume we have the same soils. Last year one got lots of gypsum, S.O.P., and Boron. The other did not. And now the difference of a modern variety is starting to be striking.

User avatar
MorpheusPA
Posts: 17475
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by MorpheusPA » May 17th, 2021, 11:14 pm

Yeah, actually having an appropriate target versus "maybe I'll throw lime at it this year" makes a huge difference.

And, of course, modern grass cultivars outcompete the oldest ones by miles. My old lawn looked great, but it was Abbey bluegrass--vintage 1960. Simply updating 50 years (at that point) improved things beyond belief.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 18th, 2021, 5:22 am

I don't have much experience with bluegrass. This grows slower than paint drys. It's interesting too, it spreads out and fills in long before it grows upward. The front lawn sort of looks like a weedy putting green. It really sneaks up on you. I think I read where the newer varieties don't grow so tall and don't need mowed as frequently. I can see how that would save lots of time and money on golf courses. I used Milorganite on it a week ago which really brings out a darker color.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 18th, 2021, 5:33 am

I found this quote: Mazama is a low growing cultivar that requires less
frequent mowing than most other bluegrasses.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 21st, 2021, 9:13 pm

I sprayed again this week with Tenacity. It seems to be suppressing the older more established plants, but with warmer weather and rain I see thousands of fine shoots the trivialis is sending up from the rhizomes. Hopefully it is a distress signal.
I put down Menardsanite on the front, which is filling in nicely from the December 1st dormant seeding. The moles continue in hiding.
Everyday I hand pull 5-10 gallons of triv plants and toss them in the rubbish.
Image

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 22nd, 2021, 9:57 pm

I sprayed the front 8k today with tenacity and a half dose of triclopr. Thought being to continue offense against the trivialis I've been battling this spring, and to spray simultaneously the broadleaves in my reseeding.
Plantains were starting to get out of control and other weeds which have no scientific name. The established trivialis plants that started last fall are looking much weaker than a month ago. But... we've had quite a bit of rain and warmer weather, which aparently has caused a uniform sprouting of Trivialis seed that was in the soil .
In the rear 19k I am not seeing this probably because of the pre-m barrier. Pretty much every square inch of the front has these sprouts, so I blanket sprayed the entirety. I hope it hits the triv and the triclopr doesn't hurt the young KBG.

User avatar
MorpheusPA
Posts: 17475
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by MorpheusPA » May 24th, 2021, 3:23 pm

Tenacious D doesn't harm KBG much, if at all, but expect some whitening or lightening. Half dose of triclopyr can do some damage, but done only once, it should be OK. Just be prepared to coddle it through summer anyway.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 24th, 2021, 9:54 pm

Morpheus I think maybe I hit it at just the right moment, just after lots of rain . Lots of bleaching where the new triv was coming in. The KBG seems fine, and the very next day the broadleaves were writhing in pain.
The nice thing is that I am on a community deep well and within reason it shouldn't be a problem watering as necessary.
I almost pulled the trigger on Certainty, but at this moment I feel like I have the upper hand with the T. I know it will be a long drawn out triv battle. I'm expecting it to be weaker this fall. I'm using the witches brew of distilled and or dehumidifier water, Tenacity, Ammonium sulfate, Surfactant NIS, and DMSO.

Masbustelo
Posts: 444
Joined: September 14th, 2018, 10:56 pm
Location: Western Illinois, parallel to tip o Lake Michigan.
Grass Type: Mazama KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: 'New' House, New Lawn Renovation Continued 2021

Post by Masbustelo » May 26th, 2021, 11:04 pm

Here is a picture from last September 20th, and a picture from yesterday, about 8 months later. I'm finally starting to feel pretty good about how it is turning out. We've had quite a bit of rain, 4/5's last night and I've applied 1/2 pound per k of Nitrogen so far this year. Many thanks for all the advice I've received on this forum.
Image

Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest