Important question for renovation

Discuss how to and whether you should renovate your lawn
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thegreatwhitenorth
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Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 18th, 2021, 5:56 pm

Help new here. Read a few threads on lawn renovations trying to find answer or what’s ok to use.

Question is is it ok to use lesco 18 24 12 on new kbg seed that I seeded 3 wks ago. The kbg is 1-2.5 inches tall right now at 3 wks. I have milorganite also to use but didn’t want to waste the full bag of lesco starter I got


Here’s what I have done.
Scalped grass to 1.0 inch
Dethatcher with thatch tines
Dethatcher with scar tines / pretty deep it tilled the dirt
Aerator
trim grass to 1.0 inch again since it got up when doing other stuff
Compost on areas I had enough compost for
Bare with aerator holes for rest of lawn
Milorganite 4 to 1 kbg seed ratio
Forgot to lightly rake seed in with dirt thought ok with such a till with scar dethatcher
Water two times a day for 3 wks light enough and kept soil wet
Now water deeper watering.
Trimmed existing grass to 4 inches it had got to 7 8 9 inches / I wanted to wait until new grass was 3 inches but by then might be 2 ft walked lightly
Mowed with a light electric mower

So you guys think it’s ok to use lesco starter at full or half rate or is that not and important to only use milorganite.

I would like to use starter if you guys say it’s ok.

Thanks.

Irisbergamot
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by Irisbergamot » September 19th, 2021, 12:01 am

Look up sprout and pout.
It’s best to not fertilize until you’re out of the pout. The grass is focused on root growth and you don’t want to drive top growth.
Forget the calendar. After it goes through a cycle of germination, no new top growth (1-3wks or possibly more), then resumed top growth. Then fertilize with your starter. But try and get a soil test.
All the best.

Masbustelo
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by Masbustelo » September 19th, 2021, 5:45 am

Lesco 18-24-12. You haven't provided us with any information to answer your question. We don't know about current fertility levels or previous applications regarding nitrogen. We don't have any information regarding your soil levels or needs for potassium and phosphorus. The lesco could be ideal or woefully inadequate. Without a soil test there is no way to know. Lesco is the manufacturer, their 18 or 24, or 12 is no better or worse than the generic lower priced sources available. You may need nitrogen, you may need phosphorus, you may need potassium, or you may need none of it.

thegreatwhitenorth
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 19th, 2021, 11:38 am

Irisbergamot wrote:
September 19th, 2021, 12:01 am
Look up sprout and pout.
It’s best to not fertilize until you’re out of the pout. The grass is focused on root growth and you don’t want to drive top growth.
Forget the calendar. After it goes through a cycle of germination, no new top growth (1-3wks or possibly more), then resumed top growth. Then fertilize with your starter. But try and get a soil test.
All the best.
You mean approx 1-3 wks from now/4-6 wks from seed.

I didn’t do a soil test so I do not know those things.

Should I do a full lesco starter amount or half rate to be safe.

And your saying it’s ok to use the starter at 4–6 wks from seed/when it stops top growth. To be clear your talking about kbg seeded grass no new top growth?

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by MorpheusPA » September 19th, 2021, 1:57 pm

Don't add starter to be "safe," use a high-nitrogen feed instead. Over-application of phosphorus doesn't confer any advantages and actually ends up causing a lot of problems.

What we're saying here is use a high nitrogen, low everything else fertilizer (which is safe)...or get a soil test and be sure of what you're using. and when.

That can be applied 1 month after seeding (sprout and pout should be over at that time) and again at the last mow (usually in November for most locales, but can be earlier; if it's less than a month after your last feeding, skip it).


thegreatwhitenorth
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 19th, 2021, 2:33 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
September 19th, 2021, 1:57 pm
Don't add starter to be "safe," use a high-nitrogen feed instead. Over-application of phosphorus doesn't confer any advantages and actually ends up causing a lot of problems.

What we're saying here is use a high nitrogen, low everything else fertilizer (which is safe)...or get a soil test and be sure of what you're using. and when.

That can be applied 1 month after seeding (sprout and pout should be over at that time) and again at the last mow (usually in November for most locales, but can be earlier; if it's less than a month after your last feeding, skip it).
Ok thanks for your guys tips this is exactly what I wanted to know/since I donot have time to research while in the middle of it.

So that 46 0 0 is best safe and good ideal stuff to use at 1 mth. That was the stuff I was going to get for NOV for last the wait until memorial to do first spring one.

Is this good. At full rates? Or half since it’s once a mth.
8/27 seed
9/27 urea 46 0 0
10/27 milorganite
11/27 urea 46 0 0

thegreatwhitenorth
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 19th, 2021, 5:06 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
September 19th, 2021, 1:57 pm
Don't add starter to be "safe," use a high-nitrogen feed instead. Over-application of phosphorus doesn't confer any advantages and actually ends up causing a lot of problems.

What we're saying here is use a high nitrogen, low everything else fertilizer (which is safe)...or get a soil test and be sure of what you're using. and when.

That can be applied 1 month after seeding (sprout and pout should be over at that time) and again at the last mow (usually in November for most locales, but can be earlier; if it's less than a month after your last feeding, skip it).
I have a bag of ringer that’s 9 0 2 which would be more then milorganite 6 4 0 if ringer is enough nitrogen or is the 46 0 0 bag most ideal for what your saying.

Should I use/save that lesco 18 24 12 for next two yrs over seeds and use as starter at same time I seed or should I just refund return it and go with milorganite again for the starter/when seeding again.

Irisbergamot
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by Irisbergamot » September 20th, 2021, 12:38 am

Consider your local temps as we move into the fall/frost.
Milorganite releases slower than urea and requires active soil partly driven by warmth.
I’m in Canada same latitude as Saginaw,MI.
In my climate I’d be fine to do Milo now, urea 4 weeks post and then urea when no grass gets cut (the final mow).

Without soil test stay safer as mentioned above with higher N and lower everything else.
.75-1 lbN/k each application

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by MorpheusPA » September 20th, 2021, 5:59 am

The Ringer would be just fine! I'd return the Lesco.

thegreatwhitenorth
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 20th, 2021, 11:59 am

Irisbergamot wrote:
September 20th, 2021, 12:38 am
Consider your local temps as we move into the fall/frost.
Milorganite releases slower than urea and requires active soil partly driven by warmth.
I’m in Canada same latitude as Saginaw,MI.
In my climate I’d be fine to do Milo now, urea 4 weeks post and then urea when no grass gets cut (the final mow).

Without soil test stay safer as mentioned above with higher N and lower everything else.
.75-1 lbN/k each application
Cheers guys I like that idea and know milorganite good for warmer mths just need to get plan for rest of this overseer.

thegreatwhitenorth
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 20th, 2021, 12:01 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
September 20th, 2021, 5:59 am
The Ringer would be just fine! I'd return the Lesco.
Cheers yea I bring that bag back and use the ringer. Should I do full rate ringer.

What about next fall I do oversees again should I seed with 4 to 1 milorganite seed or use lesco starter or other starter with seed.

I like milorganite so if that’s good I do same as this time for that.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by MorpheusPA » September 20th, 2021, 2:33 pm

I'd go full rate.

You can always apply Milo (or Ringer) with seed, or wait until a month after. I never object to organics going down with seed (the nitrogen release is slow enough not to matter overmuch).

thegreatwhitenorth
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 20th, 2021, 10:14 pm

Nice I do ringer full rate at 30 days from seed. Prob trim grass to 4 inches again and then do full ringer.

Keep watering less often deeper water maybe once a day from then on. Once I see kbg getting taller ease off on water.

thegreatwhitenorth
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 22nd, 2021, 6:43 pm

MorpheusPA wrote:
September 20th, 2021, 5:59 am
The Ringer would be just fine! I'd return the Lesco.
Thanks man. Another question would urea 46 0 0 be better then the ringer 9 0 2 for what I need because I was going to get a bag of the 46 0 0 for the NOV one.

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MorpheusPA
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by MorpheusPA » September 22nd, 2021, 8:25 pm

I'd go with the Ringer 9-0-2 for the first feeding. There's a long list of reasons why, but...here's just the two most imporant, really.

The urea will be fine for the last feeding, but it's not something to play with earlier in the season unless you have some experience with it. It's easy to overdo and burn the lawn, and younger lawns can't use it as well as they can the Ringer.

In November, you don't have too many other options than urea (the Ringer won't work well due to it being too cold), and it's fine at that point.

thegreatwhitenorth
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 23rd, 2021, 10:44 am

MorpheusPA wrote:
September 22nd, 2021, 8:25 pm
I'd go with the Ringer 9-0-2 for the first feeding. There's a long list of reasons why, but...here's just the two most imporant, really.

The urea will be fine for the last feeding, but it's not something to play with earlier in the season unless you have some experience with it. It's easy to overdo and burn the lawn, and younger lawns can't use it as well as they can the Ringer.

In November, you don't have too many other options than urea (the Ringer won't work well due to it being too cold), and it's fine at that point.
Make sense I was just thinking about the N being higher. I did ringer on 4th and it make grass go crazy fast was mowing three times a wk in July so now I am doing milorganite for 4th and ringer for memorial and thought of doing a half half of both everytime after seeing what full ringer does in July. Now we had 85/90 in June with no rain and then rain and 70s in July so.

Yea I like that plan 46 0 0 only for the NOV one and milorganite ringer combo for the others and is that 0 0 7 for before memorial in spring?

I wonder if trying the lessons 18 24 12 next overseed just to see if it does as good as milorganite did for the/as a starter. I did the 4 to 1 milorganite with seed and it had kbg going at 7 days then sort of stayed at the one and two inches it got to at 3 wks. What I liked was it got the slow kbg going at 7 days. Now I need the fast ringer/the wild thing.

Thanks again to others and I like your wisdom.

This is plan/as of now for each yr I overseed.
Before memorial 007 once or twice
Memorial half half milorganite ringer
4th half half milorganite ringer / can space out dates when not overseeding
8/17 milorganite 4 to 1 seed and all the stuff/detacher tines and scar / aerator compost/and topsoil so I have enough dirt for seed water
trim grass to 4 inch / full ringer at 30 days after seed
Mid OCT full milorganite or half half thing
Mid late NOV 46 0 0

Is there a need is it any better to do that mid OCT one? Maybe only on overseed yrs and on other yrs just space out dates so there isint that one there. Or does it really matter.

thegreatwhitenorth
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Re: Important question for renovation

Post by thegreatwhitenorth » September 25th, 2021, 10:11 pm

Got ringer on watered in kbg get taller funny seeing one two inch tall kbg and 4 inch existing grass trimming every 48 hrs.

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