KBG Seed Selection for fall 2011 renovation

[FastidiousDave]

Alright, quick background:

My lawn was at a 1:2 ratio of crabgrass to lawn this past 2010 season. Dimension goes down this spring to prevent another crab grass infestation. Soil samples were sent to Logan Labs and pending results. My soil texture test showed about 95% silt and 5% sand - results here.

My front lawn is exposed to sun almost all day including south sun. My hell stripes (if that's the row between street curb and sideway?) has a shallow soil level of 3-4 inches. I typically hit rocks at about 4 inches and it gets moderate salting from the road. I have a tree in the front yard that gives some shade. Picture here

Three quarters of my back lawn and one side of my house receives that same brutal full sun as the front but the other side of the house (accounts for less than 10% area) is shaded. Here's a picture of the back. The back of my house faces directly north. My lawn is about 5000-6000 sqft. My weather averages are here.

So I have about an estimated 80% of my yard that is full sun (6+ hours to 12+ hours) and the other parts have some shade. Given these circumstances, what are some seed varieties I should consider? I see bestlawn's KBG list suggests Pristine Green Blend - Award, Bedazzled, Prosperity. Is there any reason to deviate from that mix?

I'll be honest, I'm new at lawn care and not a proven care taker yet. I do not have a watering system, however I do have a water timer and a couple impact sprinklers. I was planning a budget to expand on another dual zone timer and another couple hoses + timers.

I have reviewed the NTEP's results for nearby states but I find it confusing looking year to year as the performance of each grass swings wildly. Sometimes, the same metrics aren't used year to year. It's hard to hone in on the best varieties.

If I had to list my priorities, I'd say I value a mix that is resilient most of all. I feel silly asking for an early green up, darkest green colors, best disease resistance, highest drought tolerance, and best repair ability all rolled into one as I'm sure it's not that easy.

I humbly ask, what questions should I be asking myself when I want to pick KBG strands? What information should I divulge to help you folks point me towards the best stands for my lawn?

[andy10917]

My soil texture test showed about 95% silt and 5% sand

Where the hell are you? On the banks of the Olentangy?

Sorry Dave, but since you say that you're a relative newcomer, we're gonna question you. Are you really SURE that it's crabgrass? What makes you sure?

Another question: could you part with $400 to get an irrigation system?

[FastidiousDave]

To clarify, I used the ruler to figure out my exact percentages, which is way different than what I said earlier. I have 9% sand and 91% silt (.25" sand and 2.5" silt)...I dug about 10 random spots and used the soil from 6" depth. I'm in shock about it, but I think I collected the samples honestly. I tested twice and got similar results. There are nearby creeks but no major rivers that are nearby that I'm aware of. I do have a creek that is as wide as a 5 lane road within 2100 feet.

I have some recent winter shots of the weeds but they all died upon first frost.

Crabgrass graveyard picture 1
Crabgrass graveyard picture 2
Isolated crabgrass bodies at the bottom of this picture (hell strip)
Unknown grassy weed in my hell strip (yellowing)

I think it's crabgrass because of the following reasons: It germinates in late spring and flourishes in the summer. The seed stalks are long and thin like crabgrasses' and they always die with first frost. They're a light green when they're alive in the summer. It looks like crab grass when I compare it to photos on the internet. I could be wrong, but I don't have a live specimen of an example from my yard.

For 2011, I cannot spend $400 on an irrigation system. In 2012, maybe or 2013, but not this year.

[andy10917]

what questions should I be asking myself when I want to pick KBG strands? What information should I divulge to help you folks point me towards the best stands for my lawn?

Tell us what is important to you in a grass/lawn, and list the properties that matter to you in descending order of importance. Then let everyone tell you their ideas. Get an idea of four or five cultivars that you really like. When you have those you can start to talk about a blend (unless most of them are from one family).

[MorpheusPA]

http://aroundtheyard.com/the-news/66-kentuc ... tions.html

Here's a place to start as well, and a generally great article from Bestlawn (the person). She recommends Award, Bedazzled, and Prosperity--all solid choices for a wonderful lawn.

I used the Mag 3 blend, Midnight II, Moonlight, and Bedazzled. Over time, some Blueberry, Prosperity, and Moonbeam has been used here and there as well. All are good choices as well.

[GaryCinChicago]

I have a tree in the front yard that gives some shade. Picture here

I am standing in the street, looking directly at your house.
What direction (by compass) am I facing?

[FastidiousDave]

Gary, you would be facing north. So the shade is behind the tree mainly. Also, directly left of my porch is a shaded area from my neighbor's huge tree above. I'd describe those areas as dappled shade with periods of direct sunlight and shade.

Morph and Andy,

I think starting with the Pristine Green Blend - Award, Bedazzled, Prosperity is a good start. I see those varieties consistently did well in NTEP testing during 2006-2009. I compiled a spreadsheet of all the NTEP's KBG data from 2006-2009 testing in PA, IN, and OH. I plan on combing those results and organizing things. I notice they have different nitrogen maintenance for each site, but the PH varies widely from location to location.

I'd say in descending order, my desires are:
1. Genetic Dark Green Color
2. Keeps Great Color In Summer...with 1" of water supplemented each week, when needed (if this is reasonable)
3. Resilient to traffic (myself walking to and from my garden every few days...and walking my dogs out into the back yard several times a day - compaction issues)
4. Early Spring Green-up and Great Color Into Late Fall
5. Slower Top Growth (reduce cutting frequency)
6. Fast Spreading Ability (this may cancel out the above desire)
7. Disease Resistant
8. Varieties that do well with a cutting height of 2.5"-3" (I like turf_toes' idea of cutting shorter in spring and letting it get higher in summer.)

I'll post more specifically about strands after I've been able to review the NTEP data, but I think I'm going to crash tonight before that happens. Hope this helps. Any other questions I might be able to answer?

[MorpheusPA]

So far, the Pristine Green blend would give you everything but #5, and marginal on #4 (spring green up will be a bit later, although mine averages March--weeks before my neighbors' "earlier" greening lawns green up and stays green into winter--normal for KBG, while the neighbors' go brown as they should). Much depends on feeding as far as all the points go. Feed poorly and performance will be poor. Feed well and the stuff goes like gangbusters.

[FastidiousDave]

Morph,

On #5, how often under *near* ideal circumstances with that Pristine Green Blend would I have to be cutting the grass in spring? How often in the summer? When I say ideal circumstances, I mean a proper organic feeding schedule, supplementing 1" of water a week and soil that's comfortable (reasonable PH, compaction, organic matter, nutrient levels, etc.).

[MorpheusPA]

In spring? Under *near* ideal circumstances...it does depend. Well-fed, well-watered, nutrient-balanced soil, and so on means you may be talking every 3 days if you dislike shagginess. Every five if you can tolerate letting it go to the one-third rule. I'm itchy at day 3 and have to at day 4...but as folks here will tell you, my mower's a robot so there's very little effort involved.

However, that's going to be true of any grass. The elites are dwarf grasses, not slow growers--their ultimate height is shorter, but it's tall enough that when down near 3" they're going to grow fast to get there. If your current grass isn't doing that, it's the feeding or a resource in the soil or something, not the grass itself.

The first year? No. You'll still be establishing the grasses and tuning the soil. By year 3? Absolutely.

[FastidiousDave]

I've seen the robot from your blog. Very cool.

The reason I ask is because I noticed that even my lawn does rapidly grow during the spring time. I wasn't sure how much faster the lawn would grow with elite grasses. That gives me a pretty good idea of what to expect and I'm going to knock that priority down to the bottom of the list. I can live with the busy spring cutting schedule knowing relief will come during the summer time.

[GaryCinChicago]

Gary, you would be facing north. So the shade is behind the tree mainly. Also, directly left of my porch is a shaded area from my neighbor's huge tree above. I'd describe those areas as dappled shade with periods of direct sunlight and shade.

KBG dislikes shade. Yes it tolerates shade, but thriving and tolerating are two different things.
Personally, I'd search this site for Billhill + Bonnie Dunes.

That mix along with elite KBG looks like this in shade under trees.

> I'd say in descending order, my desires are:

>1. Genetic Dark Green Color

Natural genetics of elite KBG

>2. Keeps Great Color In Summer...with 1" of water supplemented each week, when needed (if this is reasonable)

Dependent on cultural practices

>3. Resilient to traffic (myself walking to and from my garden every few days...and walking my dogs out into the back yard several times a day - compaction issues)

ummmm, dogs is plural. How many and what size/breed?

>4. Early Spring Green-up and Great Color Into Late Fall

Elite KBG will hold its color all winter if properly fed in fall. Elite KBG is rather slow to perk up and need mowing in spring but will be green nonetheless.

>5. Slower Top Growth (reduce cutting frequency)

Twice a week in spring and fall - once a week in summer - every 10 days during the dog days is common.

>6. Fast Spreading Ability (this may cancel out the above desire)

Natural genetics of KBG

>7. Disease Resistant

Too broad of a request.

[MorpheusPA]

I've seen the robot from your blog. Very cool.

The reason I ask is because I noticed that even my lawn does rapidly grow during the spring time. I wasn't sure how much faster the lawn would grow with elite grasses. That gives me a pretty good idea of what to expect and I'm going to knock that priority down to the bottom of the list. I can live with the busy spring cutting schedule knowing relief will come during the summer time.

It won't grow any faster, I shouldn't think, than a standard lawn in the same conditions--I started the organics about a year before renovation, and growth on my older standard lawn was the same as this one.

So I can say it won't be any worse. I can also say it won't be any better.

Given the general strengths of KBG, summer performance is better than my old lawn. In that case, I mow more often--maybe once a week or so--compared to the old one. However, the soil's improved, holds water better, and whatnot. It's likely my old lawn would have done the same.

[FastidiousDave]

Hi Gary,

3. Resilient to traffic (myself walking to and from my garden every few days...and walking my dogs out into the back yard several times a day - compaction issues)

ummmm, dogs is plural. How many and what size/breed?

They're Beagle/Caviler King Charles Spaniel mixes. They're approximately 25-30 pounds each. They're only out to use relieve themselves and don't dig or anything. They're always supervised outside and on leashes.

7. Disease Resistant

Too broad of a request.

That's a fair statement. I know nothing about diseases. Should I be concerned with disease resistance and building a disease resistant blend? If so, what's the right direction to head in about learning what I should be trying to combat? I've never checked my lawn for disease, so I don't if I currently have anything. Can I use climate information for my area to get ideas on what diseases could be probable? Yeah, I'm mush on this topic...

Thank you for the info on addressing the shade. I'll be reviewing that tonight. I'll be reviewing NTEP data shortly and post my thoughts.

Still waiting for soil test results from Logan Labs. Thank you all for the information so far!

[MorpheusPA]

They're Beagle/Caviler King Charles Spaniel mixes. They're approximately 25-30 pounds each. They're only out to use relieve themselves and don't dig or anything. They're always supervised outside and on leashes.

Three Bichons here, 15-20 pounds, no issues. Plus two humans.

That's a fair statement. I know nothing about diseases. Should I be concerned with disease resistance and building a disease resistant blend? If so, what's the right direction to head in about learning what I should be trying to combat? I've never checked my lawn for disease, so I don't if I currently have anything. Can I use climate information for my area to get ideas on what diseases could be probable? Yeah, I'm mush on this topic...

You should be OK. The blend Mallory put together is disease-resistant across the board, although some minor disease issues are always possible. I got some powdery mildew my first year. A bit of red thread. Nothing major. She chooses seed from each family that has resistance to different things--my Bedazzled is allegedly resistant to PM. Couldn't prove it by me, although it's perhaps not so bad there as the Midnight II got.

Your local extension office would be able to tell you what diseases are prevalent in your neighborhood. Some are incredibly common and not much to worry about--such as PM (Powdery Mildew) and red thread--unless they get really bad. Others, like snow mold, can be a problem or not. Some, like take-all fungus, are almost universally deadly.

[GaryCinChicago]

The blend Mallory put together is disease-resistant across the board, although some minor disease issues are always possible.

+1 to Morph ... with that shade, with the two homes being close together preventing good air circulation, you could almost bet on a little powdery mildew in those areas in early spring, IMHO.

I always get it on easterly facing walls no matter what KBG cultivars I sow. I just deal with it in spring and by summer you'd never know.

As for the pets, again I'll agree with Morph. I had to ask because ya never know. Some people own Great Danes and Mastiffs! My Golden Retriever can do damage to the grass with her dew claws when trying to roll on her back.