Renovators: Sprout and Pout

[andy10917]

Pardon me if I'm being tough on you, but your regimen looks like you're panicking to me. I see starter being used at first, then a push to Nitrogen. This, on a soil that is definitely short on P and K, and with a very high pH.

The "acidic would be better" part of your post seems like a search for a scapegoat. A point and a half over the top of the pH sweet spot is no better or worse than a point and a half UNDER the sweet spot. Look, at pH 8.2 you're going to have to nurse the grass to maturity. I'd stay the course on a high-K (or starter plus a K-supplement).

Stay the original course - I think you'll get there. Ignore the folks that have to mow every day - you're trying to get the best grass that will grow in YOUR soil.

[blizzisu]

Point taken, Andy. I'm just trying to figure out why some of us are in pout stage longer than others. It's interesting that my dog urine areas look like mature grass and the rest of the grass does not. I'll get pictures posted tomorrow.

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[NiciPicki]

I can attest that it's not the pH alone. Mine's about 8 and I'm mowing constantly.

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[sc4dr]

I like your advice Andy. Brings him back to the centerline. (Auto body quote).

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[andy10917]

The dog urine spots are actually NOT surprising at all. As a matter of fact, the dog urine spots are most often DEAD in the center of the spot (Nitrogen overdose) and dark green in the margins (high but not killing N). The lack of a dead spot says something right there...

[GeorgiaDad]

Point taken, Andy. I'm just trying to figure out why some of us are in pout stage longer than others.

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blizzisu, I barely came out of s & p last year before winter. I was into clumpy and bumpy. but by the time the leaves were back on the trees, everything just suddenly came to life and filled in.

Last picture of the renovation season~2nd week of Dec.


First picture of the spring.

[blizzisu]

Here are a few examples of the urine spots.

Andy, do you think it's the extreme amount of nitrogen that forced them into early top growth when compared to the rest of the lawn or something else? Have I not given the rest of the grass enough nitrogen?

[andy10917]

It's just speculation on my part, but the urine spots are indicative of something going on with Nitrogen and growth. A "normal" response to urine would be that the center of the urine spot would get an overdose and die, and the margins of the area would get a growth/color spurt. You lack the burnout spot, which says to me that even an overdose can't get an overdose reaction.

Since the lawn is young, I'm not big on forcing top growth without a good root system in place - it's a recipe for stress and disease later. I know it looks prettier, but I'd resist. Remember the NPK growth rule - "N" ("upper"), "P" ("under"), "K" ("all around"). You're still short in P and K.

[blizzisu]

Thanks for the responses. I basically have zero disease and am confident that by May/June it's going to look like a real lawn. Not having to mow is a plus too

[andy10917]

That's the attitude! Patience, as long as there is no disease. Don't force the hand at this point. Stay on the original plan to get the P and K improved.

[simpson]

I kinda disagree with Andy on this one. That lawn does not look healthy in the last picture. I am not saying you need to hammer it with Nitrogen but it needs some.

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[blizzisu]

I kinda disagree with Andy on this one. That lawn does not look healthy in the last picture. I am not saying you need to hammer it with Nitrogen but it needs some.

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Did you see my application log? Can I really be short on N?

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[simpson]

To tell you the truth I'm not really sure and I don't have a positive answer. But it looks clear as day that you are short on Nitrogen from those pictures. Now I can't tell you the full affects of using to much nitrogen on a new lawn. Does it cause fungus problems next summer? I have no idea.

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[GaryCinChicago]

Have I not given the rest of the grass enough nitrogen?

Philes21, stop rolling over in your grave!
Forgive them for not listening to old sage advice.

You did what you could do while you were here, and did it well.

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

R.I.P. fellow BSA member, leader of men and friend.
You did do your best, and always tried to help other people.
It's on them now.

[HanLawn]

NONSENSE....he has dropped over 2lb/k nitrogen since september 1st !!!!!! plenty of nitrogen.

[simpson]

Maybe not when you are doing a constant watering to get seed to germinate. It get flushed out of the tiny root zone that the baby grass has.

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[andy10917]

If it has a tiny root zone, why would you try to push top-growth with more Nitrogen? How is the tiny root zone going to support the top-growth? Are you sure that you're not chasing symptoms instead of fixing problems?

[simpson]

No I'm not sure but I already stated that but are you positive that you are not getting root growth with that extra top growth?

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[GaryCinChicago]

but are you positive that you are not getting root growth with that extra top growth?

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Let's think about that for a minute.

Roots grow most vigorous during cooler soil temps.
Shoot growth is most vigorous during cooler soil temps also.

Agreed?

Nitrogen promotes growth ..... and growth is growth, yes?

So then .... is the thinking that nitrogen makes the roots stop growing during the cooler temps [which they prefer] and also when growth is promoted [with nitrogen]?

C'mon. Really?

Do we need this picture again too?



Do we have to also revisit old threads of the benefits of fall fertilization again?

[andy10917]

Nitrogen promotes growth ..... and growth is growth, yes?

Simplistic and wrong for this poster's question. He specifically mentioned "Sprout and Pout". Did we lose our perspective that you don't force grass out of Sprout and Pout with heavy Nitrogen apps, just because it is now Fall? You're taking an attitude that "grass is grass", and this is a problem with low P and K in a very-high pH soil with a new lawn. Dragging out a picture intended for the annual cycle of mature grass and saying one-size-fits-all is a page right out of a Scott's approach.