Tomato problem - Yellowing and curlingleaves

[Michael Wise]

Things look worse.

So far, it is only the cherry tomatoes. The big boys still look fine to my untrained eye.

Here are pics of a couple of the cherry tomatoes.

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp32 ... 67831f.jpg
http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp32 ... 240609.jpg

Here is one of the big boys.

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp32 ... 0416d1.jpg

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[MorpheusPA]

It's possible that the one cherry tomato is going to be a loss, that there's something wrong with it. However, to my also untrained eye (at least so far as the color balance goes with your camera), those just don't look right. My petunias are deepest green with some purple tones, and the salvia are turning that color.

Here's some data I found online, a thread on Another Site: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load ... 13686.html

Another one: http://www.helpfulgardener.com/phpBB2/v ... a6ae2eac7f

The two ideas I like are a weak decoction of Epsom salts and adding calcium. I'm wondering if that isn't a magnesium deficiency, and spraying the leaves sure isn't going to hurt. The sulfate would also help suppress any disease there. I'd recommend 1 tsp per gallon, sprayed, to start.

Calcium absolutely isn't going to hurt any. If you have Milorganite left over, a scattering over the surface would help. Gypsum would work--just a tiny pinch, a wee amount.

*Edit* The other bit of data I noted was how heavily tomatoes feed, which I hadn't realized. You just fed, that hasn't had time to process yet. Most seedlings don't feed very much when young, and grow a lot slower than yours are doing (mine, at 3 weeks, are about a tenth that size).

[Michael Wise]

One more question. What about my fan?

It is pointing away from the plants, and is just pulling a very light breeze over the plants. So light you can barely see the leaves wiggle if you stare long enough. It is running any time the lights are on.

Can that be a problem?

I tell you what. With me, and I think that first link said it, too, the more I try, the worse things get.

This is my first shot at maters, and I keep hearing and reading "watering problem".

Right now, I know they have water. I'm gonna ride this out and see what happens when I know things are a little drier on the inside. Just to 100% rule that out.

I really feel that this is some rookie problem that I am causing.

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[Michael Wise]

*Edit* The other bit of data I noted was how heavily tomatoes feed, which I hadn't realized. You just fed, that hasn't had time to process yet. Most seedlings don't feed very much when young, and grow a lot slower than yours are doing (mine, at 3 weeks, are about a tenth that size).

Yeah. Looking back, I think I shoulda fed when the very first true leaves showed up.

They just got there so dang fast that I wasn't sure if I should start feeding or not.

I really do appreciate all your help, Morph.

My tomato friend up the road has been gone, and I don't know anybody else that grows stuff. It's been nice having help and someone to field my questions.

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[MorpheusPA]

One more question. What about my fan?

It is pointing away from the plants, and is just pulling a very light breeze over the plants. So light you can barely see the leaves wiggle if you stare long enough. It is running any time the lights are on.

Can that be a problem?

It's actually recommended. I'm going to add one as soon as I get my third and fourth true leaves on the new plants, pointed directly at them (I have a lot to do, so I'll set it on sweep). The stems benefit from the wind causing wiggling, which slows growth a bit but makes them much more solid.

Not having it leads to leggier plants that aren't very strong-stemmed. That increases the chances they'll break when moved outside. Stockier, stronger plants are much better.

I tell you what. With me, and I think that first link said it, too, the more I try, the worse things get.

Tru dat. Everything you do is a stress, no doubt about it.

This is my first shot at maters, and I keep hearing and reading "watering problem".

Right now, I know they have water. I'm gonna ride this out and see what happens when I know things are a little drier on the inside. Just to 100% rule that out.

That makes sense. Overwatering is the #1 killer of young plants. Like I keep saying, I use 1 quart bottom watered, about 8 ounces sprayed over the top at seeding time. I watered the petunias and salvia once so far, but I end up pouring away fully half of that.

I really feel that this is some rookie problem that I am causing.

Could be, and I don't know tomatoes. This is my first year with mass seedlings, although I've raised them indoors before in smaller numbers. I don't have anything that grows at that rate!

My tomato friend up the road has been gone, and I don't know anybody else that grows stuff. It's been nice having help and someone to field my questions.

Shrug, for what help I am. I can suggest, but don't really know, and have to go on visual clues that may or may not apply to seedlings.

[GaryCinChicago]

I keep hearing and reading "watering problem".

Right now, I know they have water. I'm gonna ride this out and see what happens when I know things are a little drier on the inside. Just to 100% rule that out.

That's what I would do. They don't like wet feet. If you are bottom watering, you don't have the cups swimming in the bottom tray of water for hours and hours, do you?

You'll be surprised at how dry they can get and still be healthy. Even when you find them wilting, they will perk right back up in a hour after a little water.

Just go by feel. Take another cup and fill it with the same soil-less medium. Pick it up and note how light it is. Now you'll know when to water the babies. As they grow bigger, you'll be watering more often, and by feeling the weight of the cup is the only way I have found.

I've had this yellow leaf problem happen with maters too and never lost one yet.

[Michael Wise]

I've only bottom watered twice. Started that after the problem.

Before, when the problem started, I was top watering what I now think was too often. Wasn't feeling the cups. Just going by the soil surface dryness. That led me to watering what I now believe was far too often.

I think it is going to be a combo of that, and starting feeding just a hair late.

I want to think that things were greening up before I left work, but i'll for sure be able to see tomorrow.

When I watered the other day, I left a plant out to compare the feel of the others to. I don't feel so much like I'm guessing with the water now that I felt it.

All the big boys look good, and 3 or so of the SS 100's still look good. Thank God I started 25 plants. Surely I'll have one or 2 left by mid April.

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[MorpheusPA]

If it's any consolation, I've lost six plants so far out of 130 started at this point. Some losses are to be expected, and some plants are a little harder to start than others. Maybe the SS 100's are just tougher.

[mattya]

Have you had this issue again? With more mature plants? I'm having some yellowing with brown spots on the leaves of a couple tomatoes I planted 2 weeks ago. It's on the bottom, more mature leaves. The plants are probably ~20-24" high now and are just starting to grow. Was thinking some sort of fungus issue and was going to try neem oil or maybe some daconil.

Was wondering if you determined adding some Mg, Ca, N or something else helped. My stuff is planted in "mels mix" - About 1/3 (maybe a bit more) compost, 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 vermiculite (maybe a bit less). I've been trying not to over water, but as you said MW it's a tough balance for a newbie lol

[Michael Wise]

Post a pic. Mine will brown and shed the lower leaves. That's normal. I don't recall spots of any kind, though.

Maybe Gary will see the pics of you post them, too.

The problem I posted about the new plants doesn't sound like the issue you are having. For the record, I get plants like I posted the original pics of every year I've started seeds. They always grow through it and turn into happy, productive plants with no help on my part.

I've gotten lucky in my very short tomato career and haven't had to deal with any real problems. At least none that didn't fix themselves.

One of my mole customers I gave some plants to this year said they lost a couple plants suddenly. We still don't know what happened there.

[mattya]

Alright, thanks. I'll post up a couple pictures of what I'm seeing.

[mattya]

No spots on the cukes, but the leaves are yellowing. Looks to me like it could be:

Septoria - http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.cornell. ... ia_Tom.htm

Either way it's some sort of leave blight/disease. I think I'm going to hit it with a light application of Daconil and sprinkle a tiny bit of Bay State/Milo around them as I didn't add any N when planting. Maybe some Mg just to cover my basis.

[Michael Wise]

Man I wish I could help.

The spots do look like something is going on, unlike the normal leaf shedding I was talking about.

I don't think action would be unwarranted on your part, but I still tend to lean on waiting and watching to see if it spreads to the upper leaves. The top of the plant doesn't look bad.

And for the squash, those 2 leaves that are yellowing at the bottom are the cotyledons. Those are the first seed leaves that the plant makes. It is totally normal for those to yellow and fall off. They are suppose to.

[mattya]

That's a cucumber, not squash - Same deal?

[Michael Wise]

Crap. You said cukes.

Yes. Same deal.

[mattya]

Well, I just sprinkled a little Bay State and Epsom salts (very little) around them. I really didn't want to spray Daconil and I remembered I have Actinovate in the basement which is labeled for leaf spot/early blight/etc on veggies so I mixed some up in a spray bottle and gave them a spray with that. I'll repeat that weekly for a few weeks and see how they look.

[mattya]

I also picked up some Neem oil. Things are looking much better after spraying with the Actinovate and Neem oil.

I lost 1 stem of the cucumber, but the other seems to be fine and the tomatoes are growing fast and healthy with no more spots showing up.

[Michael Wise]

Good! Tomatoes are tough.