Tomato problem - Yellowing and curlingleaves

[Michael Wise]

Decided to go check on my tomatoes this evening and found a little problem.

These are 12 days old with one set of true leaves.

Some leaves are yellowing and some are curling up from the ends.

I suspect newbie overwatering.

Also, when I went to check on them today they had made quite a growth spurt and were cramming themselves in the lights. Didn't know if that could contribute as well.

Here are a couple pics. I can get more tomorrow or Monday if needed.

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp32 ... cda20b.jpg
http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp32 ... d846fd.jpg

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[MorpheusPA]

Have you fed yet? That yellow between the veins of the leaves is characteristic of nitrogen shortage (it could be iron, but that's unlikely when the plant's that young and the cotyledon leaves are still attached).

If you haven't, your next feeding should be half-strength Miracle Gro, or whatever you prefer to use. Organic liquids will work, but will be slower.

For seedlings, overwatering frequently leads to wilting. Which sounds totally counter-intuitive. Sometimes they don't wilt, they just fall over dead of damping-off fungus.

[MorpheusPA]

Found this, but I doubt it's your issue unless your workplace is completely infested with sweet potato whitefly or aphids...

Leaf Curl Virus
# Sucking insects like the sweet potato whitefly and aphid transmit a disease known as the tomato yellow leaf curl virus. The condition usually affects tomatoes that grow indoors. Leaves that curl upward occur in the first stages of infection, then the leaves curl downward and become yellow. Since no cures exist for the virus, the best way to prevent yellow leaf curl virus is to control insect infestations and select healthy, insect-free transplants for fruit production.

Read more: Remedies for Leaf Curl in Tomato Plants | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_5965949_remedi ... z1F88Pdvyi

[Michael Wise]

No, no aphid infestations.

I raised the lights a little, and turned the fan up a little to help dry out if that is the problem.

I have not fed them yet, but will try that, too.

I haven't seen any label directions, but how do you feed them? Will it give me ounces or something like that? Or a recommendation for feeding based on plant size or age?

I'll get some MG tomorrow and go back to feed them.

Thank you for your help during my first tomato crisis.

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[MorpheusPA]

They'll give you a scoop; the little one is for continuous feeding and I think it goes into either a quart or a gallon, I can't remember which. I always use 1 scoop in 2 quarts for my houseplants, but those are mature.

Ounces per is difficult to determine. Just water "enough" and you'll be well within the normal limits. Since you'll use it at half-rate, you have tons of margin and overfeeding probably isn't even possible. The only way to do that is to seriously exceed the amount per gallon as the soil will only hold so much water.

[Michael Wise]

Will any leftover keep, or do I need to discard what isn't used?

In regards to watering. I've read of people watering same as we do our lawns. Waiting for the plant to "ask" for water.

Is this how I need to start going about watering?

I think watering is my biggest obstacle so far as a beginner. It even felt like what I WAS doing was too little, and I am still possibly over doing it.

So is it safe to let the plants appearance tell me when to water?

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[MorpheusPA]

Will any leftover keep, or do I need to discard what isn't used?

Hang onto it. The stuff doesn't go bad, so you can mix it up beforehand (and should probably do so to make sure the water is room temperature).

In regards to watering. I've read of people watering same as we do our lawns. Waiting for the plant to "ask" for water.

Is this how I need to start going about watering?

Not with seeds and sprouts. They go from damp to dry to dead really, really fast and don't give you a great deal of warning. Any time the baby wilts, it loses strength--and it doesn't have much. Letting the soil go completely dry is bad. Besides, growth and development stop.

Checking for a recommendation on dampness levels....

Can't find one that I like.

The best way to water is to wait until the soil is fairly dry but still slightly moist, then water from the bottom by setting the pots in water (or water with feed in it) for about 30 minutes. Remove pot.

Any sign of underwatering should be countered immediately, but check the soil first to make sure it really is dry!

I think watering is my biggest obstacle so far as a beginner. It even felt like what I WAS doing was too little, and I am still possibly over doing it.

Too little is probably just right. I started the seeds I have so far with a spray bottle and nothing more--using about a pint spread over 72 plants, plus fifteen minutes of bottom watering for about a quart total or a bit more.

The petunia finally needed a bit of water on Thursday, day 12. I let them sit for 30 minutes, which raised the soil to quite damp. They're getting nothing until the soil starts to feel not so moist any longer.

The major risk--which you're already moving past, although I'm not yet--is damp-off fungus. If that starts, you'll probably lose the plant(s) that have it. Yours look like they're already getting too mature to suffer it, as it's a seedling disease only.

We're used to plants that sit in sun, in natural soil. These are in water-retentive starter mix, under cool fluorescent light, with no drying hot wind. Their demand for water is low.

[Michael Wise]

Will the bottom watering pull water all the way up to the top where I can see the soil get damp?

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[MorpheusPA]

It should, yes. It works perfectly in a seedling tray, but those Solo cups are rather large. They may require more time--perhaps a great deal more--to wick the water to the soil surface.

[GaryCinChicago]

Will the bottom watering pull water all the way up to the top where I can see the soil get damp?

Mike: With some things - it isn't necessary to 'look at' but rather feel. (stop yourself Gary - it's Sunday!)


I'll pot up and use 20oz styrofoam cups and will bottom water them.

After an hour or so, you can feel the weight of the water in the cup. It's down on the bottom, where the roots are that you want the water anyway.

[Michael Wise]

Thanks guys!

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[Michael Wise]

Oh yeah!

I found Miracle Gro tomato fertilizer beside the all purpose stuff.

The tomato fertilizer is 18-18-21 compared to the all purpose's 24-8-16.

It says for indoor plants to mix a 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. I 1/2ed that to 1/4 teaspoon per gallon.

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[MorpheusPA]

Perfect! The tomato fertilizer would be slightly better in the future, although I might be tempted to go with the all-purpose just once to boost the N levels. Whichever, though.

[Michael Wise]

Bottom watered them this morning.

Gary, I can feeeeeel it.

Looks like I survived my first tomato scare.

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[MorpheusPA]

Yep, scare survived!

If it was nitrogen shortage, you should see a change within a day or so.

[Michael Wise]

Well, had one day of improvement, and then started heading back to where I was.

And it is only the SS 100's. Big Boys are doing fine.

Can being too close to the lights cause curling? I've been keeping them within an inch or less. The lights don't feel hot, but I'm sure my skin isn't as sensitive as tomato leaves.

When I bottom watered the other day, I only let it set for about 30 minutes. Reading back I missed/forgot that I might need to let these bigger cups set longer.

The soil is FAR from soggy. I wouldn't even call it damp right now. To eliminate that, knowing that I probably didn't water long enough the other day, they are watering now. Enough this time.

I'm also going to give them a little more space from the light. Maybe an inch and a half now.

I've been rotating them every day from side to side and one end to the other, so it isn't a certain spot where the problem is occurring.

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[MorpheusPA]

Anything up to about four inches from the light is fine. If you're using T12 bulbs, anything up to and including almost touching the light is fine. T12 bulbs don't get very warm and a lot of people let the plant leaves contact the bulb. T8 bulbs do get hotter, so the leaves shouldn't touch, but can be as close as you like.

An inch and a half is a perfectly good compromise if you want to do that. Mine are about 3" away at the moment as the plants are small and the lights don't hang down quite far enough to bring them within 2".

You definitely want the soil what I'd call "moist" just after a watering. Wetter than damp, drier than soaking wet. Anything in that range is fine. For those that didn't get enough water, feeding again isn't a mistake, either--they didn't get fed the first time.

If you accidentally send them soaking wet, no real harm done. Just let them dry out to damp before watering again.

[MorpheusPA]

A further thought--you may need to top water those cups if they won't absorb the water, although I suspect that it's getting to the root (which is down into the cup) just fine.

If so, do it slowly and be very careful not to unseat, move, or otherwise disturb the stem at this point. Every time you do so growth stalls a bit to compensate and repair.

[Michael Wise]

Thanks, Morph.

I think it is just like your link said. There is some kind of stress and once I find it, this curl and yellowing will go away.

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[MorpheusPA]

Agreed. Low water doesn't usually cause yellowing unless the leaf is dying (and yours are clearly not). Light won't do it--our lights are far dimmer than sunlight (I manage 16,000 lux, or about 1/6th sunlight). Low light might do it, but we're both giving them enough radiance to grow just fine, although perhaps a bit slowly.

Nitrogen looks possible, perhaps iron (but again, iron is unlikely), or some micronutrient.

Heh. Micros. OK. Do you have kelp extract like we use for the BL Kelp Help with Humates? Put 1 tsp per gallon in the next watering and use that. It'll supply small amounts of every single usable element. Although Miracle Gro also has measurable amounts of most things, it's missing some of the mini-micros like cobalt.

*Edit* That's 1 tsp per gallon of your already-mixed stuff, not the powder. The powder would be way too strong at 1 tsp--if you want to do that, the tiniest pinch to make the water brown but not deep brown is about right.

*Second Edit* Not that it's that important. I used about 4/5th tsp in a bit over 2 quarts and the plants are just fine. The water was what I would call really brown, but not deep and dark.