Low-cost small DIY system advice

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ligrass
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Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 1st, 2017, 3:29 pm

I'm looking to do a really small system with just 1 sprinkler. Area is about 55' x 29' rectangle. Sprinkler will be positioned in the bottom-center of the rectangle. I'll be using an orbit timer hooked up to a y-connector on outside bib to control it. A couple questions I have is which sprinkler would you all recommend:
1- Rain Bird http://www.homedepot.com/p/26-38-ft-42S ... /100081687

2- Hunter http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hunter-Indus ... /202067943

or another one similar to the above?


2nd question is- can I use a standard short hose (I have plenty of spares) and bury that or should I use PVC piping?

3rd question is- do I need a riser if I'm not digging too deep? And I'm assuming it's a good idea to use thread tape and will probably need an adapter?

I'm completely new to this, if there's anything I'm doing wrong please point it out.

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by g-man » May 1st, 2017, 4:32 pm

1) none of the above. You cant do a rectangle with these sprinkler heads. These (and most) make round patterns. At a bare minimum, you need 2 heads to get head to head coverage. A head is good at spraying far away from it, but not directly underneath it, so another head (#2) is needed to spray around head #1.

To get proper head to head, you will need 6 heads (distance of ~30ft) The hunter MP3000 would be my go to for this. If you want less heads, then you need to decide what area doesnt get watered.

2) hose above ground? yes. Underground? No. The weight of the soil will collapse and then you will only have the water pressure to expand it. PVC works, but i prefer polypoly.

3) you will want to get a flexible connection to the head so you could adjust the height to the soil level easily. Yes there are adapters for this.

Measure the pressure and gpm using a 5 gallon bucket going thru the timer and y connection. The gpm is the most important part to determine the number of zones/heads you could run at once.

There is a ton more info in this site: https://www.irrigationtutorials.com/

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 2nd, 2017, 3:38 pm

Good info g-man, thanks. For 2 heads, what would be the best positions on the rectangle to get head to head coverage? I may be able to sacrifice 1 corner in front of my shed (a pool goes in the other corner every summer so I could get away with an "Oval" shape I believe if I overshoot a couple feet into shrubs and trees).

WIth the poly, would this work?> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Advanced-Dra ... /205903417

along with clamps > http://www.homedepot.com/p/Apollo-3-4-i ... /202987276 and thread tape I have.

For connecting timer faucet to poly, I would need a barbed connector? Something like this> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Orbit-3-4-in ... /202314147
I can't seem to find one on HD's website. And then just a T-fitting and/or riser for the sprinkler head and that's it?

If anyone else would like to chime in that would be helpful. Thanks.

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by g-man » May 2nd, 2017, 4:51 pm

The best thing it to grab a paper and draw your lawn to scale (ie.1/4/in =1ft). Cut another paper in circles (also to scale) that match the head diameter distance. Lay the circle on top and move them around to see were to place them and see what you dont want to get watered.

That poly works. 1in is better than 3/4 without much of a $$ difference. I would stay at or above the 125psi rating, but above 200psi is really a waste. Here are all the options at menards: https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/r ... c-8570.htm

I use this type at the bottom of the heads. Connect them to the poly like the 3rd image shows. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-1- ... /100186504

Use this to go from poly to flex pipe (to connect to the heads): https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/w ... oreId=3171
There is a tee version too. I had the link, but there is a max of 4 url per post, so I delete it.

I prefer worm gear clamps than the ones you list. If you need to disconnect something, it is far easier with the worm.

To go from poly to hose, something like this (not this one since this is a 5/8in barb instead of 1in) https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/w ... oreId=3171
then you could use a short hose to go from the timer to the poly. If you add a valve cover, you could hide most of the stuff for the winter.

You will need to blow your lines for winter. There is a compress air to hose connection adapter at amazon sold for RV campers, but it works for this too.

It is really simple to do. The cost of the extra heads (to install 6) is not much and worth it in my opinion. Ensure you measure your gpm thru the timer and dont exceed it. Test everything before you bury the pipes (leaks and that it has pressure/flow). LoneRanger normally chimes with good recommendations too, but I havent seen him around for a month or so.

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 13th, 2017, 10:23 am

So I went and picked up a Hunter PGP head along with a small amount of poly pipe to test. That head really does hit the advertised throw distance with ease. I had to reduce it to near the minimum before it messes up the pattern.

Does anyone know if changing out the nozzle (currently 3.0gpm), what effect would that have on the pattern/stream? I didn't have time to test and it'll be raining all day here.

Also does anyone have experience with hunter PGJ vs PGP heads? I was wondering if the PGJ are more of a "spray" as they advertise than a strong stream like the PGP?

Also in picking up the parts and adapters, the guy at HD sold me an adapter to covert the male end of the hose (coming from bib) to female, and another barbed adapter to join that new female end to the poly pipe. Would I be better off just buying a leader hose with 2 female ends (like a washing machine pipe)?


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ken-n-nancy
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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ken-n-nancy » May 13th, 2017, 1:43 pm

ligrass wrote:
May 13th, 2017, 10:23 am
So I went and picked up a Hunter PGP head along with a small amount of poly pipe to test. ...

Does anyone know if changing out the nozzle (currently 3.0gpm), what effect would that have on the pattern/stream?
I'm going to presume that the PGP heads you have are the PGP-ADJ. Hunter has excellent documentation on their website on how to install / maintain their products. See the web page at https://www.hunterindustries.com/irriga ... rs/pgp-adj

Yes, changing the nozzles affects the radius of the coverage. There is a pretty comprehensive chart in the PGP-ADJ manual linked from the above page. (A direct link if you're having trouble finding it: https://www.hunterindustries.com/sites/ ... PGP_em.PDF) With the chart, you can determine the radius, GPM, delivered precipitation in inches/hour, etc.

You can also buy alternate nozzles if you want different coverage patterns. In specific, if you have good water pressure, but want shorter throw, the PGP Gray Low Angle Nozzles have shorter throw for a given GPM. Look at the different options in the nozzle charts. You can buy different nozzle trees quite inexpensively at online places like sprinkler warehouse.

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ken-n-nancy » May 13th, 2017, 2:03 pm

As a specific example of how you'll want to vary the nozzle sizes for different heads in your system, for our irrigation system, I have red "1" nozzles in the corners (which flow about 0.6 GPM at the 40 PSI we have) and red "3" nozzles along the sides (which flow about 1.0 GPM at 40 PSI) in order to give more balanced coverage. If we had the same nozzles in all of these heads, the lawn in the corners would receive more water than the lawn along the centers of the sides. You'll want to do something similar.

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by g-man » May 13th, 2017, 7:38 pm

The mp nozzles avoid all this precipitation calculations and adjustments

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 14th, 2017, 11:34 am

ken-n-nancy thanks for the great info! I didn't see that guide at hunter's site. They did include a set of the blue nozzles from 1.5 to 8gpms. I'm gonna play around with them and get this right.

g-man I will look into the MP rotators again. I think I may be able to use one for a side strip.

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 16th, 2017, 11:58 pm

So after testing the back with a smaller nozzle I found the sweet spot for one sprayer. I went and picked almost everything I need to do the front as well.
1 - I need to tunnel under a 4 foot sidewalk. I bought a straight brass nozzle along with a sweeper to shoot a powerful stream and hopefully create a tunnel that way. Any tips on doing this efficiently?

2. I'm going to run 1" pipe about 60 feet with 2 heads on it. Am I going to lose a lot of pressure doing this? My PSI is around 60 straight from the bib, GPM = 9. The two heads will put out about 6 GPM max. Will I be okay?

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ken-n-nancy » May 17th, 2017, 8:09 am

ligrass wrote:
May 16th, 2017, 11:58 pm
1 - I need to tunnel under a 4 foot sidewalk. I bought a straight brass nozzle along with a sweeper to shoot a powerful stream and hopefully create a tunnel that way. Any tips on doing this efficiently?
No experience here, so I don't have advice to give
ligrass wrote:
May 16th, 2017, 11:58 pm
2. I'm going to run 1" pipe about 60 feet with 2 heads on it. Am I going to lose a lot of pressure doing this? My PSI is around 60 straight from the bib, GPM = 9. The two heads will put out about 6 GPM max. Will I be okay?
That setup is great and will give hardly any pressure drop. Just to be sure, you can use a pressure drop calculator, such as at http://www.pipeflowcalculations.net/pressuredrop.xhtml.

My calcs, presuming new plastic pipe (for a pipe roughness coefficient) indicate a pressure drop of only 1.7psi for the situation of 1" pipe, 60' length, 9 GPM at 60 psi.

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by g-man » May 17th, 2017, 8:50 am

There are you tube videos that show how to do the underside walk. It is best to use a PVC pipe with a nozzle that you leave in place.

That pressure and gpm sounds good. Ensure your psi and gpm are measured using all the y splitter and timers.

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 17th, 2017, 7:29 pm

Thanks again for the info. I set everything up but plugged the end of the 100 feet pipe instead of putting the 2nd head on for now. A problem I just hit is this thing blew up my Orbit 3 port water timer. This is the 2nd time this happened to me. There's a piece that gets unscrewed inside of it that is possibly fixable but I'm looking for something durable to handle whatever pressure issues these orbit ones are having. Any recommendations on an outdoor system? Is melnor better quality? (I always held orbit as much higher quality until now).

ligrass
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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 17th, 2017, 7:31 pm

ETA; I tried calling Orbit but they are closed until tomorrow. I would've liked to finish this tonight. They will probably replace it free but I'm worried the same thing will happen.

ligrass
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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 17th, 2017, 10:56 pm

I think I figured out the problem. It's the orbit timer shutting off instantly and the resulting water hammer that is destroying these timers. Would a pressure regulator at the bib stop this from happening? or some way to slow down the stopping of the water (maybe a different outdoor timer if anyone has a suggestion) ?

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by g-man » May 18th, 2017, 8:12 am

If you think it is a water hammer issue, then this should help:

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/r ... 7563361801

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 18th, 2017, 8:22 am

g-man wrote:
May 18th, 2017, 8:12 am
If you think it is a water hammer issue, then this should help:

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/r ... 7563361801
I definitely think it's water hammer because it happens when the water stops abruptly (both times the orbit broke was on shutoff of the timer). I inspected my basement and found the pipe leading to the bib is only 1/2" pipe running about 24 ft. I don't have the funds to replace that so I'll try the water hammer arrester. Where would be the best place to install that? Right at the bib before the timer?

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by g-man » May 18th, 2017, 11:42 am

9 gpm in a 1/2in. That's a fast flow. Is this copper?

If you want to protect the timer, then right before would be the spot.

Have you tested not fully opening the valve? Start closing it until you notice an impact with the stream from the heads.

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 18th, 2017, 11:55 am

g-man wrote:
May 18th, 2017, 11:42 am
9 gpm in a 1/2in. That's a fast flow. Is this copper?

If you want to protect the timer, then right before would be the spot.

Have you tested not fully opening the valve? Start closing it until you notice an impact with the stream from the heads.
Hey g-man, thanks for the fast replies and confirmation. Orbit recommended the same spot but she didn't seem 100% sure. I do notice the crash won't happen (or is much less) if I turn it down. It does have a slight impact on the pattern/radius. 2 things concerned me about that: 1- I have read that those faucets are not meant to be left open halfway or 3/4 etc.
2- I am trying to keep a precise standardized flow. Keeping it fully open simplifies things now, and down the road, and seems to deliver the furthest/best spray. I could probably get away with it until I forget exactly where it was turned to. Is there a way to put a stopper so the faucet stops at a new location (thus lowering the full blast pressure)?

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Re: Low-cost small DIY system advice

Post by ligrass » May 18th, 2017, 12:03 pm

9 gpm in a 1/2in. That's a fast flow. Is this copper?"
forgot to answer this, yes it's copper. I cringed when I saw it.

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