Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 23rd, 2017, 11:55 pm

Oh, it's not that simple...the width varies...

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llO0DQLE
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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 24th, 2017, 12:37 pm

Yeah it's a pie shaped lot. It's 3 feet at the narrowest at the end and widens to 6 feet at around 14 feet length from the end. See diagram in post #8.

Regarding the 3500 rotor - well as I mentioned in the other thread, this was designed and installed by the previous homeowner who obviously didn't know proper design as there is no head to head coverage, he mixed heads etc. I think his idea was as long as the grass got touched by water it was good.

Obviously the whole section needs a redesign to function ideally. My intention for this thread was to find out the best nozzles to use given the dimensions of this section. The challenge is the tip of the pie where it's really narrow and skinny and finding nozzles that spray wide but not throw very far as the section is only 3 feet. It seems that specialty nozzles are the way to go.

The other thing is that with the quotes I'm getting, I don't think I can redo this section completely at this time due to cost, as well as the fact that I would like to put some concrete edging along the fence to make mowing/trimming easier, I think that for now, I will have to play around with swapping different nozzles like you suggested with the current head spacing and try to get as even a coverage as possible.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by rtomek » August 24th, 2017, 12:53 pm

If you're doing MP rotators, they have the rectangular ones that match precipitation rate of their standard MP rotator nozzles. I have an area where I used the side strip nozzles due to landscaping, and they also have the MP corner for tight corners. I'd probably just do rectangles with a small overshoot where it gets thinner and as long as the excess water hitting the fence and pavers is only less than 1% of the total water for the whole yard, it's not going to matter.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 24th, 2017, 6:30 pm

^I agree with the MP corner idea...you can get those down to 6 feet with the PRS30. But please, please test them first!

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » August 24th, 2017, 7:15 pm

llO0DQLE wrote:
August 23rd, 2017, 1:09 pm
Which nozzles do you have? My Rainbird VAN nozzles have a pretty high precipitation rate and my heavy soil can't soak it up that fast. I'd have to run it for 5 minutes and then let it soak for maybe 30 minutes. Is this typical with spray heads in your experience?

I think the Toro Precision Series Spray Nozzles might be a good option to try as they advertise 1 inch per hr precipitation rate which is the slowest I've seen for spray heads.

Any advise/comments on specialty nozzles such as end strips etc?
Yes, I *think* they are the Rainbird VAN nozzles. I haven't done anything with them. The put out twice the rate of my rotors.


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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 24th, 2017, 10:52 pm

Are the MP side strips and corners matched to the MPSRs or the regular MPs? I think that's what I need to do to the end section, use a specialty nozzle like a side strip nozzle. The Toro Precision Spray Nozzles have these as well.

Green, I've tried to read all the pressure calculation stuff from Irrigation Tutorials but I haven't fully grasped it yet and it's been a while since I read that section. So if I'm testing heads with my hose from the bib, would that be a reliable indicator of how it would perform once in the ground connected with the rest of my system?

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 25th, 2017, 1:21 pm

llO0DQLE,

My impression is that if you're testing a single spray head that has pressure regulation, all that matters is that the incoming pressure is more than sufficient. Your hose bib should have plenty of pressure to do the testing. If you really want to know the incoming pressure, Rainbird makes a gauge.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » September 1st, 2017, 11:02 pm

Here's my final layout for this section.


Image

I started with the big square-ish section at the top and decided to work my way down. I decided to design the square area as one section and then work the rest of the side yard as a separate section. So I have the 13' radius sprinklers only spraying 90 degrees and there are 9' radius sprinklers directly beside/underneath which are spraying 90 degrees the opposite direction. I should have pretty good overlap for the most part, except for the first big square section when going diagonally. I still have head to head coverage from top to bottom and left to right. Not much I can do to improve this I think.

The lower skinnier portion should have good overlap overall. I plan to use to corner strip nozzles at the very end, one across each other with a 4'x9' pattern. Again, these will be Toro Precision Spray Nozzles.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » October 30th, 2017, 3:33 pm

I ordered my Toro nozzles the other night. Should have them next week to install. Did you get yours yet?

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » October 31st, 2017, 1:50 pm

Ive put the project on hold as the estimate went up with my redesign and my wife and I decided not to spend this amount of money at this time. The season ended early this year and I paused in early September and I didn't feel like dropping the cash at the end of the season either. Not sure I'll do it next year either, got a little one on the way. We'll see how things go. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Toro nozzles.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » October 31st, 2017, 10:56 pm

Depending on when they arrive, I should be able to test them out while the system is still open...it's going to warm up in a few days. I definitely want to install them before it's shut down for the season...which will probably be in the next two weeks or so judging by temps.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » November 6th, 2017, 11:31 pm

I installed them today. Here are my impressions:

The 5-foot radius nozzles were useless in 6-foot wide areas. I wasn't sure if they would actually reach 6 feet at 40 psi. They didn't.

The nozzles put out a LOT less water than the Hunter nozzles. So little that I think if there's any wind, it might not cover well...the droplets are tiny.

Will have to wait for Spring for major testing.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » November 10th, 2017, 12:12 am

So basically, you can't just up the pressure to get more radius. With my intended design above, I'll be using longer radius heads than I need for coverage while turning them down to shorten the radius so it should be okay. I've read about the wind issue before but I guess that's the trade off for lower precipitation rates. I think I can live with that and just have to time my irrigation for non windy days, which admittedly can be challenging at times.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » November 11th, 2017, 6:19 pm

Yeah, you should be fine...

But, the opening where the water comes out on the Toros is also lower down than on Hunter nozzles, by a quarter inch or so. So, high-mowed grass tends to block it a bit, also reducing the radius. That seems to be the other factor. If it's a concern, you'll need 6-inch spray bodies instead of 4" ones.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » November 11th, 2017, 10:10 pm

One more thing. Getting more specific, the 8-foot radius Toro nozzles seemed to be just about right for the 6.5-foot-wide area. They actually didn't shoot as far as the 6-foot Hunter nozzles did. It's reasons like this I always say testing them out is the only way to know how they'll work. You can read spec sheets all night, but they only give you an estimate.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » November 16th, 2017, 1:05 am

Green wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 6:19 pm

But, the opening where the water comes out on the Toros is also lower down than on Hunter nozzles, by a quarter inch or so.
Thanks for this tidbit. I'd definitely want to go 6 inch bodies then.
Green wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 10:10 pm
the 8-foot radius Toro nozzles seemed to be just about right for the 6.5-foot-wide area. They actually didn't shoot as far as the 6-foot Hunter nozzles did.
So...the 8 foot radius shot less than the 6-foot, but reached at least 6.5 feet... so the 6-foot radius nozzles shot around 7 feet? I can understand that a nozzle doesn't perform exactly as the tech sheet says, but to have the same nozzles from the same manufacturer shoot way less ( 8 foot shooting only 6.5') or more (6 foot shooting 7 feet) than their specs is really odd.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » November 16th, 2017, 7:08 pm

I was comparing the 6-foot Hunter adjustable pattern nozzles to the fixed pattern Toro Precision 8-foot nozzles (60-degree and 90-degree models). The Hunters put out a lot more water, and definitely seemed to reach further. That's what I meant. This was using the same Hunter PRS40 spray bodies, trying one nozzle, removing, and then trying the other. Think of it this way...the Hunters put out more like a wall of water; the Toros were more like a mist, and at the very edge of the range (which seemed to be 5.5 to 6.5 ft) it was hard to tell if there was even any water being put down. Some of that may have been due to 4-inch grass reducing the throw.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » November 18th, 2017, 1:18 am

Sorry, totally missed the Hunter part.. thanks for the clear description and comparison.

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