Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

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llO0DQLE
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Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 21st, 2017, 10:25 pm

I've read the relevant sections on Irrigation Tutorials and seems like my option is spray heads due to the small area. See pic.

Image

I currently have Rainbird VAN nozzles but the precipitation rate is too high and to get one inch down, I'd have to run it for 5 mins, let it soak for 30 min. and do it all over again. It'll take me forever and it's too annoying. Do I have any other options? I've looked at the offerings from both Hunter and Rainbird and any spray nozzle that has a short enough radius has too high of a precipitation rate. MP Rotators and Rainbird Rotary nozzles have too long a diameter also...

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 21st, 2017, 11:09 pm

You have a few options...but you're right that the best ones are likely traditional spray heads or Hunter MP rotators (or equivalent in another brand).

I would lean toward MP rotators or equivalent because their precipitation rates are about equal to those of regular rotors, so it's easy to zone them together. You will probably need a 30 psi pressure-regulated spray body (instead of the standard 40) to get minimum radius out of any MP rotator style nozzle. Hunter actually recommends this. Try the MP corner nozzles by Hunter...test them out ahead of time to see if they work the way you like. I can tell you though, that they should in that size area.

Rotors with short-radius (SR) nozzles may be an option, too.

Another thing you can try, are the Rainbird HE-VAN spray nozzles, which have a lower precipitation rate than the VAN nozzles or Hunter's offerings.

Rainbird also offers pressure-compensating screens that can adjust precipitation rate (as well as throw distance and psi).

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llO0DQLE
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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 21st, 2017, 11:57 pm

The thing with MP rotators is that the minimum radius is 6 feet (SR series). But if we go to spray heads, even with specialty nozzles, the precipitation rate is so high, 5 - 7 inches per minutes. Why can't they make spray heads with lower precipitation rates? Is it just the nature of the design? Rainbird HE-VAN nozzles are 6' diameter at lower pressure but the precipitation rate is 3"/hr. Still too high.

However, I just found this:

https://www.toro.com/en/professional-co ... ay-nozzles

Says the precipitation rate is 1"/hr. Looks like this could work? I'm new to irrigation stuff so I'd appreciate it if someone could confirm.

Regarding matched precipitation rates with rotary nozzles and rotors - I did see Rainbird advertise that but is that the case with Hunter too? But I'd imagine you'd have to stick with the same brand and maybe only specific models of rotors match the rotary nozzles of that brand.

I didn't know about pressure compensating screens. I'll look into that. Thanks.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 22nd, 2017, 1:36 am

Right...the minimum radius with the smallest MP rotators is 6 feet. And that's spec'd with the PRS-30 body. With the PRS-40, it's more like 8 feet. How far away are your heads spaced from each other?

The spray head precipitation rates are spec'd for triangular or square spacing. With a single Hunter 6' adjustable nozzle and no overlap in a small area, I'm getting 1 inch every 30 minutes.

I, too, looked at the Toro nozzles to try to find something with a lower precipitation rate than Hunter. I'm planning to order a bunch of nozzles in the 3 brands and test them out. I think that's the only way to really know...test them yourself.

The Rainbird PCS screens are designed for use with Rainbird spray nozzles. I have no idea if they can be used with other brand nozzles or not. The thing is, they're not pressure-regulating devices. You still need the correct spray body for the desired pressure. In your case, I would guess that 30-psi bodies would be best, but I'm not an irrigation expert. You might want to buy and test out bodies, too.

Get some spike bases, and test with your garden hose if need be.

Let us know how it goes, and if you have any more questions, or ideas that someone lese might benefit from.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by TimmyG » August 22nd, 2017, 10:52 am

llO0DQLE wrote:
August 21st, 2017, 11:57 pm
But if we go to spray heads, even with specialty nozzles, the precipitation rate is so high, 5 - 7 inches per minutes.
:shock:


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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 22nd, 2017, 1:15 pm

llO0DQLE,

I hadn't seen those specific Toro nozzles you mentioned. Thanks for the tip...I'm going to buy some to try. If only the pressure-compensating versions they advertise were available, too.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 22nd, 2017, 2:02 pm

Cool let me know how you like them. I will measure my yard and the current sprinkler spacings, draw up a sketch and update this thread.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 22nd, 2017, 8:18 pm

Here's a drawing that I did my best to draw to scale of 1 cm : 1.5 feet. I marked my measurements on my rough draft and somehow the shape looks different after I drew to scale. I suck at it but hopefully this helps.


Image

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 22nd, 2017, 10:32 pm

So, you've already identified the large issues, like no wires for a zone.

Do you know exactly which heads are giving head-to-head coverage and which aren't off the top of your head?
If not, I'd make a list of that. Then see if simple radius adjustments fix it...if you haven't yet. If they don't, re-nuzzling rotors that don't reach far enough is the only way. Try to at least get head-to-head coverage within each zone by swapping out nozzles. If you still can't get proper coverage, then you have a design issue.

After the rotors are all head-to-head, then you can start doing catch can audits. Note that at the edge of each zone, where 2 zones overlap, you'll need to take into account the amount in the cup when each zone runs alone, and again when both run (which is what you're shooting for in most cases). The process of swapping nozzles and retesting can take a while...weeks or months if you're not watering frequently. You don't want wind, and I'd recommend running the sprinklers at least a half hour each time you test. Chances are, the amounts in the cups are going to be all over the place.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 22nd, 2017, 11:39 pm

The no wires on a zone is for the other thread.

Almost all of them don't have head to head coverage for this section except for the one rotary nozzle by the raised garden bed that hits the one spray head next to it. I've already done a catch can audit and it's horrible. The patterns are bad and a lot of sections don't get covered well. Certain cups get 1 inch very quickly while others barely have anything. I ran out of time to measure the distances of the heads but I've got them staked out already. I will measure and post them tomorrow. In the meantime, here are some pics showing the heads and the spacing.

Zone 5

ImageImageImage

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llO0DQLE
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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 22nd, 2017, 11:43 pm

I have Rainbird bodies and VAN nozzles. Do you know which nozzles can fit into these bodies that I can easily swap with? Do Hunter Nozzles fit? I've been reading tech sheets for the last couple of days and my head is spinning at the moment. I seem to recall Hunter advertising a line of their nozzles that can fit other brands..or maybe it was Toro..idk anymore. If someone knows this info at the top of their head that would be great.

Also, note to self and others. Rainbird Rotary nozzles (Rainbird's MP Rotators) are advertised to have matched precipitation rates with Rainbird 5000 rotors.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » August 23rd, 2017, 9:35 am

IO - I like my spray nozzles for a narrow strip - takes a lot less time to irrigate and it is more even than my rotors

Unfortunately, you have to replace the whole body if you want to change spray nozzles from rainbird to hunter.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 23rd, 2017, 1:09 pm

Which nozzles do you have? My Rainbird VAN nozzles have a pretty high precipitation rate and my heavy soil can't soak it up that fast. I'd have to run it for 5 minutes and then let it soak for maybe 30 minutes. Is this typical with spray heads in your experience?

I think the Toro Precision Series Spray Nozzles might be a good option to try as they advertise 1 inch per hr precipitation rate which is the slowest I've seen for spray heads.

Any advise/comments on specialty nozzles such as end strips etc?

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 23rd, 2017, 3:09 pm

I think the Toros are going to be interesting. I intentionally had a couple of sprays added to a zone with rotors recently on the hell strip area, knowing full well I'd have to figure out a way get everything as balanced as possible. Right now, I have Hunter nozzles, and they water too much too fast for that zone.

I've played with strip nozzles back when I did a mini reno over a year ago. Nothing is a perfect rectangle or square, though...if in doubt, make sure you overshoot the area a bit. I might have to use strip nozzles again to water a small area I'm overseeding.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 23rd, 2017, 6:32 pm

How do those strip/corner nozzles work? Seems like they're just meant to be a stand alone for small/tight/irregular areas where the rest of your heads can't reach or it's too small an area to put even a spray head in. Do you just compromise for these small sections and not worry about head to head coverage and let these specialty nozzles do their thing? How uniform is the pattern for these nozzles?

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llO0DQLE
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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 23rd, 2017, 8:01 pm

Image


Image



Image

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 23rd, 2017, 8:16 pm

Sprinkler head spacing is as follows:

Zone 5 (sprinklers by fence)

End of lawn -> 4'8" (6 VAN) -> 9'9" (8VAN) -> 10'4" (10 VAN) -> 6' (12 VAN) -> 10'5" (3500 Rotor)

Zone 6 (right across Zone 5)

End of lawn -> 6'3" (8 VAN) -> 7'9" (8 VAN) -> 10'3" (VAN spray nozzle, buried, have to dig out to find exact model)
-> 6'9" (12 VAN Full circle) -> 12'4" (3500 Rotor)

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llO0DQLE
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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by llO0DQLE » August 23rd, 2017, 10:49 pm

Image

Green
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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 23rd, 2017, 11:30 pm

llO0DQLE wrote:
August 23rd, 2017, 6:32 pm
How do those strip/corner nozzles work? Seems like they're just meant to be a stand alone for small/tight/irregular areas where the rest of your heads can't reach or it's too small an area to put even a spray head in. Do you just compromise for these small sections and not worry about head to head coverage and let these specialty nozzles do their thing? How uniform is the pattern for these nozzles?
Not necessarily...they're still meant for head-to-head overlap ideally, though can be used alone if the space is small.

When I was doing grass seed/new grass on an area that was about 4x30 in Spring/Summer 2016, I used 3 of those...a left corner strip, center strip, and right corner strip. The area wasn't a uniform rectangle, and was slightly bigger than the stated coverage, but it got the job done without exact overlap. On established grass that was being watered deeply and infrequently, you'd have to stay within the recommended coverage area.

And they don't truly spray a rectangular pattern.

Again, I'd recommend you buy a bunch of nozzles for $1 each, and test them at your leisure using a spike base equipped with Hunter PRS-30 shrub body, connected to your hose. Written specs are one thing...real world patterns are a bit different in practice. There is an adapter necessary to do this. It's a plastic cutoff riser...I can't remember the exact size off-hand.

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Re: Need suggestions on nozzles for tiny narrow section

Post by Green » August 23rd, 2017, 11:38 pm

What's the width of that Zone 5 area? And what purpose is the 3500 rotor serving there?

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