Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

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andy10917
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Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by andy10917 » August 26th, 2018, 11:08 am

I found out in early April that I am diabetic, and it woke me up to my (not so hot) eating habits. The endocrinologist gave me a diet plan that made no sense to me (if carbohydrates can't be processed well by me, why would I want to eat 200 gr a day of them?).

My own research turned up the Keto Plan, and both myself and my wife (who wanted to do it for weight loss) went with it. We have both lost 35 lbs each, have far higher energy levels and feel great. My blood glucose dropped from 354 (A1C of 10.5) to around 100 (just about normal).

Anyone else doing it, and if so why and what are your results?

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by ctrav » August 26th, 2018, 5:45 pm

Congrats on the success and choice of eating differently! My wife and I have done it and now I find myself just eating better, choosing wiser, paying attention and often just saying no to myself. It’s all about lifestyle, choices and moderation. I’m holding 180 and that exceeds my goal so I’m happy!

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » August 27th, 2018, 3:13 pm

andy10917 wrote:
August 26th, 2018, 11:08 am
I found out in early April that I am diabetic, and it woke me up to my (not so hot) eating habits. The endocrinologist gave me a diet plan that made no sense to me (if carbohydrates can't be processed well by me, why would I want to eat 200 gr a day of them?).

My own research turned up the Keto Plan, and both myself and my wife (who wanted to do it for weight loss) went with it. We have both lost 35 lbs each, have far higher energy levels and feel great. My blood glucose dropped from 354 (A1C of 10.5) to around 100 (just about normal).

Anyone else doing it, and if so why and what are your results?
Andy, finally something I can help you out with.
I highly recommend but it’s difficult.
Can you PM me an email address?
Lots and lots of info, rather chat outside my iPad and on a pc.

I lost about 25 lbs and improves focus and mood.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » August 27th, 2018, 9:31 pm

Any specific questions ?
Look up intermittent fasting as well.
Some things to google, mark Sisson. The bulletproof diet, Phil maffetone.mct oil, the fasting mimicking diet.
Remember that ketosis is when your body is completely devoid of stored liver sugars. This can be entirely down by fasting and induced by exercise.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by andy10917 » August 27th, 2018, 9:44 pm

No, I'm comfortable, but appreciate the offer a lot. I've been on the program (I don't call it a diet, as I had to learn to change my eating for Diabetes). Now after almost five months I can't believe that I can eat lots of great foods, I easily resist carbs (I stay under 20g) and I don't get cravings AT ALL. Energy is great and doctor was blown away by my numbers. My triglycerides and lipids were lower than their already OK numbers, cholesterol was 145 and falling (ratios very good). I'm a ridiculous researcher, and here's one for you: research what Dr. Sarah Hallberg and Virta are doing.


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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » August 28th, 2018, 12:00 pm

Haven’t heard of them but will look up.
Maybe you can help get my electrolytes right...
Worried when taking all together they’re getting bonded in my stomach and not absorbed.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by andy10917 » August 28th, 2018, 12:14 pm

I'll help - the one thing my wife had as an issue was night-time lower-leg cramps. Is that your issue?

BTW, the Virta folks got $75MM in venture money to take the Sarah Hallberg stuff to the next level. Real trials and all that - and the first year results were excellent. Their stated mission is to put 100 million people into reversing Diabetes by mostly Keto by 2025.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » August 28th, 2018, 6:59 pm

It was at one point.
Once you relalize how much potassium your body actually needs it’s not an issue.
I’ve been ordering potassium citrate in 99mg form.
I take roughly 1000mg of potassium a day.

Magnisuem is also important but is better done through topical absorption.
Should help with the legs.

Sounds awesome.the thing is people can reverse diabetes with fasting and not actually following a keto diet. All about insulin.

I’d try working Omad in...
Aka one meal a day, less insulin equals less problems

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by PW405 » August 28th, 2018, 7:40 pm

I try to always have a good diet. I ask myself questions such as:

Did it ever have roots? Probably OK to eat. (Example - Pop tart never had roots. Neither did bread.) I say probably, because you shouldn't eat poison ivy.

Did it ever swim/walk/run/gallop? Probably OK to eat. (Cook it first, in most cases.)

Everyday, the goal is to consumer as close to 0 grams of sugar as possible. 0 Grams is better than 5 grams. 5 grams is better than 10, etc.

Take it easy on the sodium.

Learn to understand and modulate your insulin response. Here's an example from my 65 year old uncle who cycles 100's of miles/week:

Example - One wakes up and has a donut: simple carbs (AKA Sugar in disguise) covered in sugar. Sugar on sugar. Blood sugar spikes, pancreas freaks out and tries to create insulin. Insulin makes you tired, tells your body to store calories as fat, and then gives you false hunger signals later.

Example - one wakes up and has trail mix (or something similar) that contains the same amount of sugar as the donut, but also is mixed with fiber and different fats (mono/poly unsatured fats). It will take longer for your body to metabolize the sugar because it is also trying to metabolize the fats & fiber. The insulin response will be less dramatic.

Very glad to hear you've made such a dramatic change Andy! It really is amazing how baaaad living the insulin roller coaster makes you feel. If you haven't already, I highly suggest watching "Fed Up" on Netflix. Primarily focuses on the health issues associated with eating so much sugar - and things disguised as sugar. Research presented seems to implicate insulin as a culprit in so many chronic diseases that Americans have - obesity, heart disease, cancer, etc.

Keep it up!

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » August 28th, 2018, 9:07 pm

@pw405, paleo is what the cool kids call it and a pretty good way to go if keto is too involved.
I personally love being in deep ketosis, the energy and mental boosts are incredible.
Like hacking your bodies own survival instincts.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by bpgreen » August 29th, 2018, 1:52 am

Let me start by saying that if it works for you, it's something you should do.

Having said that, I've read about the keto diet and it seems to have some promise in certain situations (especially in people with diabetes or people who are prone to diabetes, and epileptic children).

But I've got some questions and concerns, as well.

People who try to cut out all fats end up with vitamin deficiencies because some vitamins are fat soluble. But many vitamins come from fruits and vegetables. Do you take a supplement to get these?

What happens to the microbes in one's gut with a keto diet? People take probiotic supplements, but I'm convinced that's like spraying compost tea on a lawn with no organic matter. If there's nothing for the microbes to eat, they're going to die. And the gut microbes mostly eat fiber.

I've read that the standard American diet only has 15 g of fiber per day, and the recommended amount is 25-40. If your total carb intake is only 20g, how much, if any fiber, are you getting? Even if that 20g is net carb (total carb - fiber), your fiber intake must be really low unless you're taking fiber supplements.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by andy10917 » August 29th, 2018, 9:46 am

BP, there are a few things to keep your eye on, but there are a few misconceptions here. The Keto program is fats-rich, not an avoidance of fats. No, that doesn't mean you get a license to eat poor-quality fats in large quantities. I eat lots of avocados and avocado oil, olive oil, coconut oil and coconut milk (in moderation), wild-caught salmon, chicken thighs, etc - but also lots of leafy greens, celery and tons of salad with olive/avocado oil and full-fat cottage cheese. Eggs and good cheeses are breakfast. Almond and coconut flours are used some to replace regular flour in some recipes. Breading on chicken/fish can be replaced with unflavored whey protein. My biggest surprise is just how much tastier riced cauliflower is than regular rice.

The program says to eat 60%-75% of your diet from good fats, around 15%-30% from proteins and just 5% from carbs. The 20g of carbs can be upped a bit to determine the threshold that you have for remaining in ketogenesis after you've been on the program a little while, but I haven't found it necessary - very often my wife and I find we are satiated before we complete meals, and carb cravings two hours after eating are nonexistent. And yes, I can have my (single) Scotch. Beer is verboten unless you're willing to drink things like Michelob Ultra at 2.5g carbs.

What does my doctor (endocrinologist) say? Despite the intuitive guess that all the fats would increase bad stuff in the body, lipids, triglycerides, cholesterol all dropped. Cholesterol is 145 and ratios are very good. She was thrilled and gave me a stretch goal for blood glucose/A1C that I've already smashed in just weeks.

It's not for everyone, though. First of all, ketogenesis is an on/off binary thing - you can't "cheat a little one day" as once the body switches back to standard glucose burning, it takes 3-5 days to make the switch back, and a small number of people get flu-like symptoms when the change back to ketogenesis is made.

The body tends to flush salt from the body during ketogenesis, and Potassium/Magnesium flush when salt (Sodium) flushes. Muscle cramps can happen. Upping salt intake helps, as does upping leafy greens - but many people find it's easier to supplement with Potassium/Magnesium pills rather than further restrict food choices (avoid boredom in meals too). Salt has NOT turned out to be a bad thing for the vast majority of people - it seems that poor foods are often laced with salt to improve their taste.

For anyone reading this that is diabetic or prediabetic, a great "Ted Talk" by Dr. Sarah Hallberg is available on Youtube - if I remember it's about 30 minutes. Crazy eye-opening.

I can't begin to say how much better I feel (energy) and it's amazing how the body reacts to the program by reducing inflammation - even little things like bleeding gums when brushing teeth stopped cold. This is one of the top 2-3 things I've ever done for my body.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by bpgreen » August 29th, 2018, 12:14 pm

You answered a lot of questions in that post, but they weren't the questions I asked.

You misunderstood my comment about low fat diets. I had another post where I worded it better, but lost that and wasn't clear this time. I know that the keto diet is not low fat, and is high fat. I was making an aside about people who go the other extreme missing vitamins because some vitamins need fats to be absorbed. But you kind of accidentally answered the question that I was asking there when you said you eat lots of leafy greens and salads.

But you didn't answer my other questions.

Are the 20 grams of carbs total carbs or net carbs?

If they're total carbs, your fiber intake must be really low. Even if they're net carbs, I'd think it would be difficult to get enough fiber and keep the total carbs down to 20 g.

What's the effect of the keto diet on the gut biome? My understanding is that the microbes in our guts need fiber to stay healthy

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by andy10917 » August 29th, 2018, 12:33 pm

Are the 20 grams of carbs total carbs or net carbs?
Net carbs.
If they're total carbs, your fiber intake must be really low. Even if they're net carbs, I'd think it would be difficult to get enough fiber and keep the total carbs down to 20 g.
I don't track fiber intake, but I feel my fiber intake is probably higher now than it was before - I eat many fewer highly-refined foods and much more green, leafy foods and salads.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » August 29th, 2018, 1:40 pm

Exactly, fiber is exempt.
I try to do a vegan version of keto. Lots of kale, cabbage, broccalli mixed together with avocado and a good fatoush dressing.
Sometimes I will break down and have bacon or salmon but the less protein the more effectively you can loose weight loss.
Protein can and will kick you out of ketosis if you eat too much because your body will want to turn it into sugar.

One point to make is that regular table salt is posion. And that is whats used in when sodium is added to anything in the standard american diet. Use pink himalyian salt instead. It also has other natural occuring yhings you need.
Once or twice a day, I will spike some water with pink himalyian salt to make sure im getting enough sodium. Once you cutout processed cr you’ll be amazed at how little salt youre actually getting.

Lastly, if you attemp, getting into ketosis is hard, but you should be able to monitor it by how much weight you loose within the first couple days. Your body stores around 5-6pounds of glycogenthat everyone talks about. Once thats depleting youll really hungry and move into ketosis.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by bpgreen » August 29th, 2018, 2:34 pm

I was just looking at the ratio of total carbs to fiber for some of the types of veggies you mentioned, and it looks like they're pretty high in fiber for the carbs, so you're probably getting plenty of fiber.

The keto diet seems to work really well for people who really stick to it, but I've read that a lot of people have trouble sticking with it all the time, and as Andy pointed out, if you don't stick with it completely, it's not going to work.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by ctrav » August 30th, 2018, 12:41 pm

There are so many good things to eat on Keto but its still a little difficult to stay on it for more than 6 months. At least it was for me...my wife is hanging in there for sure and she is happy!

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by andy10917 » August 31st, 2018, 9:11 am

One point to make is that regular table salt is posion.
This is where I depart from many of the postings that people make about Keto. This is poison, all of your meats must be grass-fed organically-grown, no thickeners, no artificial sweeteners, blah, blah, blah. Many posters on sites turn it into a religion with high-priests the only ones that can speak from on-high. I can afford to be buying high-quality stuff and I understand the chemistry and nutrition, but all of these "never do this, and never do that" scares people that they will die if they make a smallest of errors. Keto can be done with standard products from the grocery store, and I hate the overcomplication of basics for beginners - the same way that I hate the overcomplication of lawn/garden procedures. You don't "need" an Exmark mower, aerators, growing-degree-day sites and coring tools for soil samples to succeed at lawns, and you don't need to turn Keto into religion or a high-cost, overwhelming thing that requires a doctorate.

BTW, my wife and I DO use Himalayan Sea Salt, but mix it 50/50 with iodized salt, but that came from our son the chef long ago.

It's far better to not strive for absolute perfection in everything in Keto than for people to toss in the towel because it's too expensive (wrong), too complicated (unnecessary), or too difficult to find foods (it's not).

<End rant>

PS: a big day is coming very soon - although my reason for Keto is Diabetes, I weighed in at 230.0 lbs this morning (I'm 6' 6"). I haven't been in the 220's in 20 years.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » September 11th, 2018, 6:14 pm

Weighed in at 220# today... feel proud young man that you’vr worked your wayback from the edge!!

About the salt ,I read that table salt is poison because the way its processed. I really dont know.

Costco has ground pink himalayain salt for like 10$ and ooodles of it. Perfect for mixing... I’d reccomendd it.

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Re: Anyone Here Doing Keto Program?

Post by Bales9er » September 14th, 2018, 10:04 am

In an attempt to finally lose my excess weight and get off blood pressure meds I stumbled upon the Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson about 18 months ago and haven't looked back. Lost 40 lbs in less than 6 months, got myself off the blood pressure meds, lowered triglycerides and LDL cholesterol, raised HDL (doubled in fact). I've been maintaining the weight loss ever since and I don't miss my old lifestyle at all, easily the best thing I've ever done for myself.

Andy, congrats on your success with the keto/paleo/primal lifestyle as well and I agree that seeking perfection in this lifestyle is the best way to fail at it. I got caught up in going down every rabbit hole after my initial weight loss because I wanted more but soon realized (with a little help from my wife) that I should just be happy with my results and the fact that I can effortlessly maintain it. Once I came to that realization and that I don't need to follow everything to a "T" I have been even more satisfied with the entire process. It absolutely works and the premise makes a lot of sense but you have to want to do it for yourself.

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