Mulched leaves

A forum to learn and discuss the importance of lawn care basics
Post Reply
gibson981
Posts: 22
Joined: May 13th, 2016, 2:03 pm
Location: Newtown, CT
Grass Type: Don't know
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Mulched leaves

Post by gibson981 » April 29th, 2017, 12:39 pm

After mulching a lot of leaves last fall there are some areas where it has not broken down into compost. Just a thin layer of packed down leaf clippings. It seemed to be breaking down nicely last fall until just towards the end of the season -- I guessed the cold temperatures slowed down the process??

Should I leave this be and let nature take its course? It seems like alittle bit of raking would really speed things along -- but I believe I read this hurts the Pre-M effectiveness (put down Dimension a week ago).

User avatar
ezael
Posts: 132
Joined: September 6th, 2016, 10:34 am
Location: Wilbraham, Massachusetts
Grass Type: Fielder, Arcadia, Merit, Quantum Leap KBG
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by ezael » April 29th, 2017, 1:00 pm

It will keep breaking down as temps are rising. As for raking hurting pre-M effectiveness, never heard of it so not sure.

drawz
Posts: 44
Joined: May 16th, 2016, 4:01 pm
Location: Newton, MA
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 3000-5000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by drawz » April 29th, 2017, 1:49 pm

I had this problem too and feel like it smothered some of the grass. I know the benefits of leaf mulching, but is there a point where the soil can't handle it?

lVlrBoJang1es
Posts: 122
Joined: March 29th, 2017, 11:59 am
Location: Western Michigan
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by lVlrBoJang1es » May 3rd, 2017, 10:05 am

I've wondered this as well...

I get a decent amount of leaf accumulation on my property. Nothing crazy though.

I mulch the leaves in early fall as they start to drop. As fall progresses and the leaf input raises, I found that even with double mow passes i still get 75% of my lawn matted down to where it will nearly kill all of my grass. Mowing more frequently is not an option due to wet soil - see my next point. I almost opted out of a pre-M this spring so I could do a back to back (fall -> spring) overseed because of the leaf damage from last fall.

It seems to be a compounding issue. As the leaves fall, the soil doesn't "air out" as well and remains moist. You can say "just mow more often", but add in some rain WHILE the leaves are falling and you're looking at easily a 3-5 days before everything becomes "mow-able-dry". By then another 2-3" of leaves have fallen bringing the drying out process to a complete halt.

Mowing as much as I would say is possible still leads to ruts developing because the softer moist soil. Those ruts further collect leave matter (mulched or whole), which smothers and kills the remaining turf in the depressions. This leads to erosion of the soil in the areas where there is no longer grass holding the soil in place = deeper/wider ruts = more leaf matter collection = ruts getting wider = more leave collection = more turf dying = ...

I don't understand how people are mulching all their leaves into the lawn. I have a reasonable OM% (6-8% in sampled areas) and was on a decent milorganite plan last year (I probably drop more than my soil can handle). This would lead me to believe that my microherd is healthy/populated enough to handle a decent amount of leaves.

I recently bought a STIHL blower with suck/shred capabilities that seems to obliterate leaves into particles smaller than my mower does on double passes. I was thinking I would try to blow off my yard this fall, suck/shred the piles and rake in the resultant matter sections at a time. This seems like an exponential amount of work compared to those that are having success just mulch mowing the leaves in.

I'd like to also add that i'm using my stock blade on my mower. I've heard of mulching blades - maybe i should look into picking one up to use in the fall?

Maizan24
Posts: 234
Joined: August 16th, 2016, 4:25 pm
Location: Central CT
Grass Type: Northern mix
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by Maizan24 » May 3rd, 2017, 12:22 pm

Another curious one here. I'm in a similar situation as Mr bojangles only I have used my toro blower/vac in addition to raking in addition to mulching. Beginning of fall I can keep up pretty well. Obviously further along in the season and more leaves dropping with a decent amount of trees in the back yard leads to a bit of a mess. I do make multiple passes in different directions which helps to get things broken down but there just seems to be too many leaves in certain areas of my back yard that there's a perpetual ground leaf barrier. I don't mind too much as I plan on doing some work eventually to repair a drain we have in back and I'm probably going to dump a bunch of soil down and reseed. But even after I do that I'm still going to have leaves falling in those areas.


TimmyG
Posts: 2244
Joined: May 15th, 2012, 6:04 pm
Location: Dracut, MA
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Experienced

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by TimmyG » May 3rd, 2017, 12:26 pm

lVlrBoJang1es wrote:
May 3rd, 2017, 10:05 am
I'd like to also add that i'm using my stock blade on my mower. I've heard of mulching blades - maybe i should look into picking one up to use in the fall?
Next time, lead with that. You absolutely want to use mulching blades when mulching leaves. Seems logical, right?

I'm not saying that mulching blades are going to solve your wet leaves issue, but they are specifically designed to keep the cut grass and leaves suspended longer under the deck so that they get chopped up finer before falling to the ground...as opposed to stock blades which are typically designed for greater lift either for bagging or throwing.

User avatar
MorpheusPA
Posts: 18129
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 7:32 pm
Location: Zone 6 (Eastern PA)
Grass Type: Elite KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Advanced

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by MorpheusPA » May 3rd, 2017, 12:42 pm

When mulching (my mower is advertised as having a mulching blade, but it's OK at best), I run over the leaves several times until the pieces are the size of my index fingernail or smaller. And my hands aren't large.

Since in my heavy years, that would be six inches of pre-chopped leaf mass dumped on the lawn at a time, it might take a dozen times over that mass. Normal mowing on normal leaf drop, twice--if that.

At those sizes, I didn't and don't have any issues. Leaving them too much larger and yes, it does tend to mat down the grass a bit.

lVlrBoJang1es
Posts: 122
Joined: March 29th, 2017, 11:59 am
Location: Western Michigan
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by lVlrBoJang1es » May 3rd, 2017, 2:24 pm

TimmyG wrote:
May 3rd, 2017, 12:26 pm
lVlrBoJang1es wrote:
May 3rd, 2017, 10:05 am
I'd like to also add that i'm using my stock blade on my mower. I've heard of mulching blades - maybe i should look into picking one up to use in the fall?
Next time, lead with that. You absolutely want to use mulching blades when mulching leaves. Seems logical, right?
I guess that's the answer I was expecting but wasn't sold on! For example; a de-thatching blade. I don't think I could ever go the route of using a rotary mower blade with tines to do my dethatching... Just seems like it would harm the the existing turf too much! The mulching blade seems to make more sense though!

I'll have to take your advice and try a mulch blade! Since i rarely bag my clippings, it seems to make sense to leave it on year round (aside from sharpenings of course!).

Thanks for the input TimmyG. Hopefully i'll have better luck this year with the leaf mulching.

drawz
Posts: 44
Joined: May 16th, 2016, 4:01 pm
Location: Newton, MA
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 3000-5000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by drawz » May 5th, 2017, 11:27 pm

My mower also claims to have a mulching blade from the factory and I'm not sure there are any replacement options besides the original (Ego 56V battery mower). I also have the Toro blower/vac and removed quite a bit of leaves in the fall because the ground clearly couldn't handle it. I'll try more passes with the mower this year I suppose.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by andy10917 » May 6th, 2017, 9:23 am

I also have the Toro blower/vac and removed quite a bit of leaves in the fall because the ground clearly couldn't handle it.
If the soil can't process it, it is highly, highly probable that your practices need a review and the soil is not at fault. I process 24-30" of leaves in a 7-8 week period -- and it does it down to a mahogany-colored dust each week. Ask yourself these questions:

(1) like Morph mentioned, are you mulching the leaves down to 1/4" pieces that can filter down through the grass all the way to the soil? I have a Honda HRX-217 and it still takes 3 or even 4 passes, and a back blower maybe to even out the leaves somewhat before mulching.

(2) are you watering in the foliage season? Moisture is critical for the bacteria and fungi to make their way into and decompose the leaves.

(3) do you feed the microherd all season with grains/Milorganite/compost/sawdust/etc? If you expect to feed the lawn synthetics all season and starve the microherd, and then it's suddenly in top-form for the foliage season to work for you, you are in for a rude awakening.

(4) are you using products often that injure or kill components of the microherd? This isn't limited to harsh herbicides and fungicides - the use of things as innocuous as lime in too-heavy amounts at once shocks the soil and kills parts of the microherd. Tilling can do the same - some members of the microherd live at specific depths, and if moved by tilling or heavy aeration die out.

Yes, some of these practices take time and effort. If you want the quality of the best lawns on the site, you have to do the practices of the people that manage them - there aren't any magical shortcuts. Reading about best-practices or pushing a thumbs-up button isn't the same as spending all season keeping the microherd in top shape.

gibson981
Posts: 22
Joined: May 13th, 2016, 2:03 pm
Location: Newtown, CT
Grass Type: Don't know
Lawn Size: Not Specified
Level: Not Specified

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by gibson981 » May 6th, 2017, 12:46 pm

Question -- what is a good blade to mulch with> I have a Honda mulching mower....is the original blade good or are there better aftermarket available.

Andy, to answer your questions -
1 yes -- multiple passes with mower, also use a mulching lawn vac I have with the bag taken off. Works great!
2 yes, although a wet fall so not too much was needed
3 some milo, although less than many on the site. did it in between the recommended synthetic applications
4 maybe a problem here. definitely some herbicide usage. also a dry summer stressed as well.

I'll give it another go this year. for my soil sample the top portion of the core definitely looked darker, so just need that OM to work further down into the root down and I think the lawn will really improve.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by andy10917 » May 6th, 2017, 1:12 pm

I find the blades (2-blade system) on the Honda HRX-217 mulch extremely well. I've seen many people walk too fast with the mower to allow the mulching blades to work well. I can never find the mulched material at proper speed.

umbo514
Posts: 99
Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
Location: Rhode Island
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by umbo514 » June 7th, 2018, 8:50 am

gibson981 wrote:
April 29th, 2017, 12:39 pm
After mulching a lot of leaves last fall there are some areas where it has not broken down into compost. Just a thin layer of packed down leaf clippings. It seemed to be breaking down nicely last fall until just towards the end of the season -- I guessed the cold temperatures slowed down the process??

Should I leave this be and let nature take its course? It seems like alittle bit of raking would really speed things along -- but I believe I read this hurts the Pre-M effectiveness (put down Dimension a week ago).
Gibson... any updates on this a year later?

I too had a similar problem last fall. I practice everything Andy was talking to, to help the microheard process the leaves. My backyard is a forest so I have basically unlimited leaf matter. So much that I have 8' dia by 5' high pile from last fall which I was planning on spreading throughout this season to help my OM. However, I did not know if I should be mulching more leaves if I still see a good deal of unprocessed leaves coating the dirt. Other than herbicides, I can only think that the slow microheard processing is due to having fairly 'new' soil as my lot is new construction. So hopefully this season and so on, the heard can process more and more. Marathon continues.

CPascal
Posts: 121
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 1:06 pm
Location: Milton, MA
Grass Type: Back: 65% KBG (Bedazzled, NuDestiny, Rhapsody),20% PRG, 15% Firefly Hard Fescue. Front: Double Eagle Perennial Rye Shaded areas: Mix of fine fescues and Bewitched KBG
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Experienced

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by CPascal » June 7th, 2018, 11:58 am

I also wonder if using Kelp Help on a periodic basis would help jumpstart the micro heard to help with the processing of mulched leaves

JHazzardB
Posts: 417
Joined: August 7th, 2012, 11:16 am
Location: OKC, OK
Grass Type: Front Yard: KBG blend. Back Bewitched/Nuglade
Lawn Size: 5000-10000
Level: Experienced

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by JHazzardB » July 8th, 2018, 11:38 am

In the fall, I routinely go down the curb on my block and take up all of the wet soggy leaves from the curb and dump it in piles in my yard. It’s a cold soggy mess and my neighbors think I’m crazy for doing it, but the yard eats it up in a few weeks.

One thing that helps me greatly is the side shooter on the mower. I have to keep running over the pile but it allows me to keep chipping away at the pile and dispersing it. That’ll help later after I take the side shooter off for mulching. I’ll normally keep “pushing” my pile as far as it’ll let me, then switch 90* and go it again.

After it’s pretty well thinned and dispersed, it should be relatively ‘fluffy’ where it’s a bunch of pulled apart pieces about 1.5”. Then I’ll start mulching, at least twice.

I normally get some wet leaf build up on the mower wheel tracks. If it’s a larger type clump, I’ll just grab my leaf rake and flip it off the wheel path and hit it next time with the mower.

I’ve also found that these wet leaves will build up in places that are immediately lower than the yard. For instance a basketball size are that got rounded up. For this, I’ll take a plug or two from the rest of the yard to fill it in so the canopy of the grass is uniform and the mower will hit everything.

Maizan24
Posts: 234
Joined: August 16th, 2016, 4:25 pm
Location: Central CT
Grass Type: Northern mix
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Novice

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by Maizan24 » July 10th, 2018, 4:14 pm

Never considered using the side shooter. I usually just run them over in multiple directions. Might try this this year if I remember.

User avatar
andy10917
Posts: 29739
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
Level: Advanced

Re: Mulched leaves

Post by andy10917 » July 10th, 2018, 10:36 pm

I used to have my wife drive the tractor with side-discharge aiming toward the center of the yard, making tighter and tighter circles. I used the Honda to microchop what she pushed. When we'd reach the center, there was nothing to mulch, and that was on a yard with a couple of hundred 50'-70' trees dumping (I'm surrounded by heavily forested trees).

And Yes, having a wife that participates during Leaf Season is wonderful.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests