Hydroseed and overseed Advice
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- Posts: 99
- Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
- Location: Rhode Island
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Hydroseed and overseed Advice
Hello everyone! I’ve been lurking for a while now, so much valuable information from current and past posts so thank you all already. I would like to give you all a little back story and then ask for advice and comments. Sry for the long 1st post.
I have recently bought a new construction home in RI where they put down a sandy fill dirt and the put down roughly 4 inches of top soil around my entire property. I have cleared some trees for yard space but my backyard, after the ‘lawn’ space (~5k sqft) is woods (love it). My front yard is roughly 5k sqft of ‘lawn’ and then some trees blocking the road.
I started to get water in my walkout basement so the construction company is re-grading my backyard starting August 1st. So this is where I first would like advice. They will be re-grading the back yard and put new top soil down for the entire backyard. They will then be hydro seeding. Other than setting up my water system (hoses on timers) what else can I do before the hydro seed and after to ensure a good germination and growth into the cooler months before winter? Such as, should I put an app of milo before they hydro?
My second thing I would like to tackle is my front lawn. Unfortunately when we bought the house they hydro seeded front and back on June 30 2016… so sadly I lost most the first summer. In fall of 2016 I over seeded with some slight luck but not as well as I hoped (I know this takes time, a lot of time). So this spring I aerated and over seeded again with again a mix of TTF. I aerated partially because the lawn had draining problems so I thought it was compacted but also because I did not find this site yet to educate myself that it may have been the wrong way to go. Anyway, the seeds took ok (I’d say 25% germination) and now that we are in the summer I am slowly losing spots (as expected). All summer I have been putting down roughly 50 lbs of coffee grounds per week and overtime I have put down 2 bags of lime, 14 lbs of Epsom salt, a bag of ringers and an app of milo. I put these down based off my first soil test which was through my local extension office. I guess my question is how should I handle this fall? I have a ton of weeds now in the bare spots and I have been spot spraying to start my weed triangle approach. Even with some of the heat I haven’t been affecting the grass too much around the weeds luckily. This was going to be my approach:
1. Soil test end of July.
2. Continue to kill weeds.
3. Scratch the dirt of the barespots? and overseed/seed middle of august and put a top coat of peat moss and some compost I have been making. Then should I compress this mixture to ensure good seed to soil contact?
Side note, when I over seeded this spring, the seeds that germinated were only in the aerated holes. I’m assuming I failed in the bare spots because I did not put a top dressing of anything nor did I compress the seeds into the dirt. All I did was rake and seed.
4. Apply the necessary apps from the soil test and follow the recommended fertilizer approach till the beginning of winter.
I have recently bought a new construction home in RI where they put down a sandy fill dirt and the put down roughly 4 inches of top soil around my entire property. I have cleared some trees for yard space but my backyard, after the ‘lawn’ space (~5k sqft) is woods (love it). My front yard is roughly 5k sqft of ‘lawn’ and then some trees blocking the road.
I started to get water in my walkout basement so the construction company is re-grading my backyard starting August 1st. So this is where I first would like advice. They will be re-grading the back yard and put new top soil down for the entire backyard. They will then be hydro seeding. Other than setting up my water system (hoses on timers) what else can I do before the hydro seed and after to ensure a good germination and growth into the cooler months before winter? Such as, should I put an app of milo before they hydro?
My second thing I would like to tackle is my front lawn. Unfortunately when we bought the house they hydro seeded front and back on June 30 2016… so sadly I lost most the first summer. In fall of 2016 I over seeded with some slight luck but not as well as I hoped (I know this takes time, a lot of time). So this spring I aerated and over seeded again with again a mix of TTF. I aerated partially because the lawn had draining problems so I thought it was compacted but also because I did not find this site yet to educate myself that it may have been the wrong way to go. Anyway, the seeds took ok (I’d say 25% germination) and now that we are in the summer I am slowly losing spots (as expected). All summer I have been putting down roughly 50 lbs of coffee grounds per week and overtime I have put down 2 bags of lime, 14 lbs of Epsom salt, a bag of ringers and an app of milo. I put these down based off my first soil test which was through my local extension office. I guess my question is how should I handle this fall? I have a ton of weeds now in the bare spots and I have been spot spraying to start my weed triangle approach. Even with some of the heat I haven’t been affecting the grass too much around the weeds luckily. This was going to be my approach:
1. Soil test end of July.
2. Continue to kill weeds.
3. Scratch the dirt of the barespots? and overseed/seed middle of august and put a top coat of peat moss and some compost I have been making. Then should I compress this mixture to ensure good seed to soil contact?
Side note, when I over seeded this spring, the seeds that germinated were only in the aerated holes. I’m assuming I failed in the bare spots because I did not put a top dressing of anything nor did I compress the seeds into the dirt. All I did was rake and seed.
4. Apply the necessary apps from the soil test and follow the recommended fertilizer approach till the beginning of winter.
- Dchall_San_Antonio
- Posts: 3343
- Joined: December 17th, 2008, 1:53 am
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Re: Hydroseed and overseed Advice
Clearly you have done a lot of reading here. Thank you.
If you have time between the final back yard grading and the hydroseeding, it would be nice if you could de-weed the back. Do that by spraying 3x per day, lightly, with water. Do that for a week to germinate all the weed seeds you have. Then spray with RoundUp. Continue watering 3x per day for another week to germinate the slow starting weeds. Spray again with RU and rake up all the dead stuff. Then when they hydroseed and you begin watering the actual grass seed, there should be no weeds. I would still roll down a hydroseeded lawn.
If you want to get more from your next soil test, check out the things they do over on the soils forum.
I'm seeing some sorry looking lawn pics from MA this year. Are you getting heat stress like they are?
If you have time between the final back yard grading and the hydroseeding, it would be nice if you could de-weed the back. Do that by spraying 3x per day, lightly, with water. Do that for a week to germinate all the weed seeds you have. Then spray with RoundUp. Continue watering 3x per day for another week to germinate the slow starting weeds. Spray again with RU and rake up all the dead stuff. Then when they hydroseed and you begin watering the actual grass seed, there should be no weeds. I would still roll down a hydroseeded lawn.
If you want to get more from your next soil test, check out the things they do over on the soils forum.
I'm seeing some sorry looking lawn pics from MA this year. Are you getting heat stress like they are?
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Re: Hydroseed and overseed Advice
Don't put down more than 1/4" of top dressing or the seeds won't germinate.
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- Posts: 99
- Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
- Location: Rhode Island
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Hydroseed and overseed Advice
Dchall, thank you for your response... I will most definitely try and do that IF the landscapers do the top soil and hydroseeding at two different times. But I have a feeling they wont since when they did our house the first time it was all a once.
The weather has been all over the place this year... extremely wet/cold spring and a warmish summer so far with a lot of rain... however still get stress spots and lost some grass that I knew I got going late for summer survival... had to try! I'm pretty sure the heat stress is related to my lack of OM in certain areas. Hoping the coffee grounds and leaf mulch and the peat moss top dressing I will be doing this fall will help next season.
Fronta, thanks for the heads up, I'll keep the peat moss tin. I prob only made 2 yards of compost so far, I'll see if I can hot compost another batch before seeding time.
The weather has been all over the place this year... extremely wet/cold spring and a warmish summer so far with a lot of rain... however still get stress spots and lost some grass that I knew I got going late for summer survival... had to try! I'm pretty sure the heat stress is related to my lack of OM in certain areas. Hoping the coffee grounds and leaf mulch and the peat moss top dressing I will be doing this fall will help next season.
Fronta, thanks for the heads up, I'll keep the peat moss tin. I prob only made 2 yards of compost so far, I'll see if I can hot compost another batch before seeding time.
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- Posts: 99
- Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
- Location: Rhode Island
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Hydroseed and overseed Advice
Small status update... all of the areas I originally raked and tried to reseed this spring (some being successful) has now sprouted what looks like crab grass, very light green in color, wide blades, when we had temps holding at 87 for a week or so.
So my question is, what did I do wrong? No I did not put pre m down because I was seeding, so I know that did not help. Any advice going forward and any advice removing it? I just don't want it to drop a ton of seeds down for next summer.
So my question is, what did I do wrong? No I did not put pre m down because I was seeding, so I know that did not help. Any advice going forward and any advice removing it? I just don't want it to drop a ton of seeds down for next summer.
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- Posts: 3874
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Re: Hydroseed and overseed Advice
Spring isn't the best time to reseed, in part because of how many weeds sprout in the spring and early summer and in part because the new seedlings don't have time to establish before the heat of summer hits, so some don't make it. Late Summer/Early Fall (after the heat of summer breaks) is the best time to reseed.
When the grass seed gets enough water to sprout, so do all of the weed seeds. There are pre emergents that will suppress weeds, but let grass sprout.
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Re: Hydroseed and overseed Advice
Next time use the new Scott starter with weed preventer. Depending on how old your new lawn is and temperatures you should be able to use weed b Gon plus crabgrass preventer. The label will specify how old the new grass needs to be.
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- Posts: 99
- Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
- Location: Rhode Island
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Hydroseed and overseed Advice
Thank you guys for the advice for the crabgrass... I also picked up a crab grass killer... Ortho Weed be gone with crab grass killer on clearance...
Question... My local Walmart has the Earth Grow Humus and Manure bags on clearance for $.99 ... whats everyones take on me using this as a top dressing in the problem areas where I would like to seed?
Bag says .5 .5 .5 and 90% humus and 10 % manure
I could mix some compost with this stuff. I was just thinking at such a cheap price why not grab 10 or 20 bags. It has a smell to it but nothing over baring. The bag does say don't sow seeds into it directly, and to mix it, but I would be mixing it technically with soil I scratch anyway. I know I should follow directions but wondering if anyone had experience with it or something similar.
Getting excited for seeding time really soon!
Question... My local Walmart has the Earth Grow Humus and Manure bags on clearance for $.99 ... whats everyones take on me using this as a top dressing in the problem areas where I would like to seed?
Bag says .5 .5 .5 and 90% humus and 10 % manure
I could mix some compost with this stuff. I was just thinking at such a cheap price why not grab 10 or 20 bags. It has a smell to it but nothing over baring. The bag does say don't sow seeds into it directly, and to mix it, but I would be mixing it technically with soil I scratch anyway. I know I should follow directions but wondering if anyone had experience with it or something similar.
Getting excited for seeding time really soon!
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- Posts: 99
- Joined: June 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am
- Location: Rhode Island
- Grass Type: Northern Mix
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Some Experience
Re: Hydroseed and overseed Advice
So I read a few reviews of the earth grow humus and manure and bought 20 bags for some top dressing, opening the first bag, it looks very good.
I wanted to give an update and ask a question..
I have learned so far the most important thing to do is to understand WHY the grass is not growing in spots through investigation. I started to dig small holes where grass was struggling and I really wish I had sooner... I have found a covered up stump grounded down only 2 inches below soil level, and of course a grounded stump is never alone, I found so much wood chips. I also discovered areas of stone where they must have kept a pile during the build... very fun so I am trying frantically to repair those areas..
I learned to read the labels sooner than later! Especially for Ortho weed be gone... I now understand that it is recommended to wait 4 weeks after applying to your lawn to be able to seed..
So my question is do I apply the Ortho weed be gone with crab grass control now? and wait a month to seed or do I just fix the patchy areas and overseed where I can and deal with the crabgrass next season with pre M? There is a decent amount of crab grass and I know if I were able to remove it I would get a much better area to fix/seed. But late Sept I think will be too late to germinate and be able to handle the first frost in Rhode Island.
I wanted to give an update and ask a question..
I have learned so far the most important thing to do is to understand WHY the grass is not growing in spots through investigation. I started to dig small holes where grass was struggling and I really wish I had sooner... I have found a covered up stump grounded down only 2 inches below soil level, and of course a grounded stump is never alone, I found so much wood chips. I also discovered areas of stone where they must have kept a pile during the build... very fun so I am trying frantically to repair those areas..
I learned to read the labels sooner than later! Especially for Ortho weed be gone... I now understand that it is recommended to wait 4 weeks after applying to your lawn to be able to seed..
So my question is do I apply the Ortho weed be gone with crab grass control now? and wait a month to seed or do I just fix the patchy areas and overseed where I can and deal with the crabgrass next season with pre M? There is a decent amount of crab grass and I know if I were able to remove it I would get a much better area to fix/seed. But late Sept I think will be too late to germinate and be able to handle the first frost in Rhode Island.
- Dchall_San_Antonio
- Posts: 3343
- Joined: December 17th, 2008, 1:53 am
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
- Grass Type: St Augustine
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Hydroseed and overseed Advice
If I only had a dime for every time I heard that. As has been mentioned, spring is the wrong time to seed. This is one of the two great reasons why. The other is heat stress on the new seedlings.
You might have been able to bypass the weed problem by pre watering daily as if you were trying to sprout the weeds. Then spraying with RoundUp to kill everything. Then continuing the daily watering for a second week and spraying RU again. That should get rid of the weeds that might have germinated beside your turf grass seeds. Of course with the time you started this, a delay of 2 more weeks would have almost guaranteed death due to heat.
Fall is the best time of year to seed northern grasses.
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