Rookie lawn care help

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bigterp
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Rookie lawn care help

Post by bigterp » July 19th, 2017, 9:38 am

Am looking for advice on helping myself to start taking care of my lawn. I live in Falling Waters, WV (hardy zone 6b) on a 2 acre property (probably 1.5 acres worth of lawn) with an established lawn of approximately 18 years. I've lived in the home for 6 years with no lawn maintenance other than mowing. To my knowledge this was all that was ever done to the lawn before my arrival as well. My lawn isn't in terrible shape my any means, but I'd like to start working to getting it looking much better and in overall better shape for my 7 month old son who will by next year be playing all over it. I have no idea what the current grass is in my lawn. My front lawn is in pretty good shape for the most part. Healthy thick green grass. But parts of it are rather thin and weedy, especially the shaded parts. My back and side yards are about the same. Nice parts closer to the house, but thin and weedy the further from the house you get. About half my back yard is full shade with large yellow poplar trees providing the shade. This area is super thin and weedy and only gets mowed maybe every 3rd or 4th mowing. My property is surrounded by trees/woods and the lawn in those areas next to the woods is in bad shape as well. Been doing a lot of research on how to start taking care of my lawn and feel I have a decent grasp on the concepts and a plan, but wanted to see what you all thought about it.

My first step is getting a soil sample sent into my local extension office. They provide a test, free of charge (which is nice), to give me soil pH and nutrient level and then provide recommendations for fertilizer and/or lime applications. I plan to get this done ASAP.

In the meantime I'm thinking of core aeration and overseeding this fall. I stuck a screwdriver in various spots around my lawn last night. Some spots went in easily, and others felt pretty hard/compacted. Even in the softer spots the screwdriver only went in 3-4" easily. We haven't had any rain in a few days though. But I'm thinking a good core aeration would be helpful. I have an underground dog fence I'll need to be careful of, but other than that it shouldn't be too painful. I do have a septic drain field in my back yard. Any concern with core aeration over top of that? I'm pretty sure local code requires the drain field pipes to be 12" below grade, so I'm thinking it won't be a problem. I'll get a better look at my thatch level when I pull my soil samples. But is dethatching necessary in addition to core aeration? What grass types would you all recommend for my area? I'm guessing some sort of mix due to my yard having full sun and shaded areas. Any specific brand(s) I should be considering? What about seeding rate? For overseeding I've seen everything from 1-2# per 1,000 sq/ft up to over 5# per 1,000 sq/ft. So not sure what would be best. How about starter fertilizer after overseeding? Or should I go with what is recommended from my soil test? When would be the best time of the fall to accomplish all of this? Should I be treating all of my lawn (shaded vs sunny, thick vs thin) the same, or will I need to address these areas differently?

Sorry for the long post and so many questions at once. Just getting out what's in my head and trying to come up with a solid plan for this fall to get started on helping my lawn. I'll have the winter months to work out what I need/want to do for the spring. Which I'm thinking will be fertilizer and a pre-emergent. I also want to edge my property, which will be quite the chore since we have many flower beds and trees that will need edged. But it should make a huge difference once done. Any power edger recommendations? I'm looking at the Black & Decker Edge Hog right now. https://www.amazon.com/BLACK-DECKER-LE7 ... B00004DTNH

Thanks in advance for any help/insight/recommendations provided!!!!!

Fronta1
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by Fronta1 » July 19th, 2017, 4:59 pm

But is dethatching necessary in addition to core aeration?

No, but it will help with soil contact.

What grass types would you all recommend for my area?

Cool season grasses include Kentucky bluegrass, tall fescue, perennial rye, fine fescue, and creeping bent grass. I recommend either one of or a mix of the first three, while fine fescue can be used for shady areas.

Any specific brand(s) I should be considering?

Preferred seed, united seed, super seed store, and Hogan seed

What about seeding rate?

Kentucky bluegrass is 3lb/k sq ft, tall rescue is 8-10lb/k, perennial rye is 6-8lb/k, the others I'm not sure. If doing a mix average them.

How about starter fertilizer after overseeding?

Yes

When would be the best time of the fall to accomplish all of this?

After summer temps begin to recede until first frost

Should I be treating all of my lawn (shaded vs sunny, thick vs thin) the same, or will I need to address these areas differently?

Shady areas should recieve less nitrogen

Galuvian
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by Galuvian » July 19th, 2017, 5:17 pm

Most people here recommend against core aeration. The problem is that it exposes lots of weed seeds that you'll need to then go to battle with. The Best Lawn Soil Conditioner (BLSC) is an alternate approach that will soften the soil without needing to aerate.

Its great that your local facility provides a free test, but if you can spend the $25 for a test at Logan Labs, the ST6 team in the Soil management forum can give you deeper insight than what the stock recommendations often say.

Regarding seed, the amount per k varies depending on the type of grass you are using. Fescues have a large seed and require a high weight per k, while KBGs have tiny seeds and you spread less by weight over the same area. The Elite KGB cultivars are really popular around here, but they are also high maintenance.

I recommend you start reading about the pros/cons of KBG vs a TTTF (Turf Type Tall Fescue) or the other options and see what you might want. What kind of grass do you currently have? Would you be happy overseeding something new into it or do you want to try to match the current grass type?

Once you get the soil test results, you can develop a plan for what to be putting down regarding fertilizer and amendments over the next year.

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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by SNOWBOB11 » July 19th, 2017, 7:18 pm

Fronta1 wrote:
July 19th, 2017, 4:59 pm
Should I be treating all of my lawn (shaded vs sunny, thick vs thin) the same, or will I need to address these areas differently?

Shady areas should recieve less nitrogen
I'm not sure I agree with this but i'm curious to find out why you feel grass that gets shade needs less nitrogen than grass that gets more sun.

Fronta1
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by Fronta1 » July 19th, 2017, 7:34 pm

I've read it in a few different publications. Makes sense. Grass doesn't photosynthesize as much.


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andy10917
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by andy10917 » July 19th, 2017, 7:48 pm

Much Google-Fu in some of the above posts.

SNOWBOB11
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by SNOWBOB11 » July 19th, 2017, 8:15 pm

I think in a lawn that is made up of one type of grass like say KBG or rye, you would want to fertilize the same amount whether in sun or shade. If you have a mix lawn where each grass type maybe could do better with different amounts of N then I suppose that would be different. For instance fescue might do better in shade than other grass types but could stand to use less N than other grass types. It doesn't necessarily mean that all grass in shady areas should be fertilized less IMO.

bigterp
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by bigterp » July 20th, 2017, 8:59 am

Wow!! Thanks for all the replies.

I've been reading up on soil conditioners, especially the DIY BLSC. And am now leaning more towards this approach instead of the labor intensive core aeration. Do you guys recommend using both the BLSC and BKH? Will either of these effect my soil test readings? I collected my soil samples last night and will send them in shortly. Just curious if the results I get will be different after applying BLSC and/or BKH? I also have read recently on this forum that some are forgoing the yucca extract in the BLSC. Is this recommended, or should I stick with the recipes as they are in the article?

While getting my soil samples last night, I realized my thatch level doesn't seem bad at all. What do you guys think? I attached a few pictures for reference. Also, you can notice in the pictures that I have much different soil in different parts of my yard. Front is loamy/sand/clay, with some parts being really nice loamy soil. Side and back yards are primarily clay.
Image

Image

Image

Soooooo, if I go the soil conditioner route and do not core aerate would it be a good idea for me to dethatch before overseeding to help improve seed to soil contact? Or should I just progressively mow lower before overseeding? I have no irrigation, so will be relying on mother nature to provide the moisture I need after overseeding. Not ideal, I know, but my yard is too large to be able to sufficiently keep things watered with a hose sprinkler. I should've gotten pictures of my yard as well, but didn't think about it. I would say 2/3 of my front yard and 1/2 of my back yard are in really good shape. Should I overseed everything, or just concentrate my overseeding on the thinner spots of my yard?

Where do I go from here? In my neck of the woods, overseeding would be best preformed probably sometime in September. Before then should I focus on getting a few applications of the BLSC and/or BKH? And then overseed and apply starter fertilizer? Any more treatments I should perform before winter sets in?

Thanks again for all the responses, help and suggestions!!! I'm very new to lawn care. While I'm not looking for the perfect lawn, I would like to have a much improved one over what I'm currently working with.

bigterp
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by bigterp » July 20th, 2017, 11:13 am

Ignore my question regarding the yucca extract. Just read a post where andy says the yucca was the most important component of the recipe that helps water retention. So I'll keep that in there.

Another question regarding the BSLC. I read a post by Morpheus where he is now using powdered sodium lareth sulfate from here https://www.brambleberry.com/Sodium-Lau ... P3562.aspx. Mixing at a rate of 5oz per gallon to make the concentrate. MUCH cheaper then buying it in the liquid form. So this 5oz per gallon would be used as is for the 80 ounces called for in the recipe, correct?

Fronta1
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by Fronta1 » July 20th, 2017, 1:15 pm

Do you guys recommend using both the BLSC and BKH?

Absolutely

Will either of these effect my soil test readings?

Not for many years

I also have read recently on this forum that some are forgoing the yucca extract in the BLSC. Is this recommended, or should I stick with the recipes as they are in the article?

Yucca extract is an organic surfactant similar to sls. It is more expensive and less effective.

if I go the soil conditioner route and do not core aerate would it be a good idea for me to dethatch before overseeding to help improve seed to soil contact?

It would help

Or should I just progressively mow lower before overseeding?

Yes

I have no irrigation, so will be relying on mother nature to provide the moisture I need after overseeding.

Seeds need to be kept wet for two to three weeks for successful germination. Mother nature is not going to be able to do this for you. You will likely waste a lot of time and money if you don't water yourself.

Should I overseed everything, or just concentrate my overseeding on the thinner spots of my yard?

If it allows you to provide irrigation, just partial.

Any more treatments I should perform before winter sets in?

Just make sure you don't apply any selective or pre emergent weed killer within 3 weeks of seeding.

bigterp
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by bigterp » July 20th, 2017, 1:26 pm

Been doing some more reading (slow day at work) and found many more threads with "updated" recipes for the BLSC and BKH with more economical ingredients. I have a large area to do, 65,000 sq ft if I'm figuring on 1.5 acres of lawn to treat, so the savings will be helpful. Just trying to make sure I have the recipe close enough. I know there are many variations and a lot seems to be personal preference. Curious if what I have below sounds about right.

BLSC:
8 oz SLS powder
8 oz yucca extract
1 gallon of water
At 2 oz per 1,000 sq ft this will make enough for about 1 application for my entire yard

BKH:
4 oz kelp extract powder
8 oz humic acid powder
2 gallons water
This will give me enough for about 2 applications on my entire lawn.

Using a hose end sprayer I can just combine the BKH and BLSC half and half and spray using the appropriate setting on the sprayer, correct? No need to spray each separately?

bigterp
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by bigterp » July 21st, 2017, 7:52 am

Thanks again for the response!!

Good point on the irrigation. My only problem is if I overseed my entire lawn I'll have over 1-1/2 acres to keep watered. Without an irrigation system that is pretty impractical. So I'll most likely take the advice and concentrate on the thin areas and just overseed those. Which would be a few parts of my front yard, my side yard (which is pretty small) and the rear half of my back yard that is shaded and pretty thin. I can manually keep these areas watered much easier.

I plan to get my supplies ordered today for the BLSC and BKH today. Just want to do a little more research to ensure I have the ratios right and decide if I should forgo the yucca or not. I'm also mailing out my soil sample today, so will be expecting those results in the next few weeks.

Sooooooo, my plan now is to get 2 applications of the BLSC/BKH into my entire yard before fall. Overseed my trouble/thin areas when appropriate (early/mid September?) and apply a starter fertilizer to those areas. Then fertilize my entire lawn in late fall based on my soil test results. Question on fertilizing late fall.....Should I fertilize my entire lawn the same? Or since I'll have reseeded parts of it and applied starter fertilizer to those parts, should the overseeded parts be treated differently?

Fronta1
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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by Fronta1 » July 21st, 2017, 11:26 am

bigterp wrote:
July 21st, 2017, 7:52 am
Question on fertilizing late fall.....Should I fertilize my entire lawn the same? Or since I'll have reseeded parts of it and applied starter fertilizer to those parts, should the overseeded parts be treated differently?
Yeah you should wait a month before you apply more fert where you already put down starter but after that you can apply normally. But it might not be a bad idea to keep giving it the starter rest of the year. And if your results show lacking p and k you might want to use all starter.

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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by TimmyG » July 21st, 2017, 11:32 am

(Pssst. The abbreviation for Bestlawn Kelp Help is either BLKH or just KH, but not BKH.)

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Re: Rookie lawn care help

Post by Galuvian » July 21st, 2017, 11:37 am

Only the most dedicated turf enthusiast would try to go full high maintenance on that much area out of the gate. I suggest you identify two or three things to focus on for the next 12 months and then re-evaluate. How much time do you have every week to work on this?

It seems like thickening your thin areas is a priority. Maybe some weed control too. Those can go hand in hand, as a thicker lawn will be more resistant to most weeds. There are several things that may improve things, but the soil test results will help you figure out what the most important thing is.

You seem to be highly focused on dropping seed and getting it growing. If your soil is crap or there are other deficiencies, those seeds may do well for a year or two and then fade like the current grass is doing. Do you need some serious amendments? Is your OM poor? BSLC and KH are great at solving a specific problem, but if you have other problems those may be more worth your time now. You seem to be assuming that hard soil is why the grass is thin.

September is a little late to seed for most people, but I can't see your location on mobile right now.

Picking certain areas to focus on so that you don't need to schlep hoses around too much is a very good idea. You listed several areas above. I suggest you do some trial runs to see how much effort it will be to keep new seeds wet enough that you won't be regretting it halfway through. Use tuna cans to make sure you're getting as much water as you think you are.

Regarding fertilizing, for actual fertilizer you don't want to double fertilize anything. Use starter on the seeded areas and follow whatever plan your test indicates for the rest. Other amendments like lime or SOP can usually be put over a seeded area, but wait to see what else you might need to put down and ask then. No sense talking too much hypothetically yet.

You mention a bunch of trees. Do you mulch the leaves? That can help the soil tremendously. Do the trees need some pruning to let more light hit the lawn?

And yes, you can combine the BLSC and KH and apply at the same time. Just be aware that this requires increasing the application rate for the combined oz/k

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