Water Runoff
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- Posts: 75
- Joined: August 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm
- Location: Northlake TX
- Grass Type: Bermuda tiff 419
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Water Runoff
I just started watering my lawn once a week with 1" as recommended. This morning was the second week using tis method.
Here is the setup:
Front yard has 6 zones set at 19 min per zone. I run back to back run cycles so a total of 4 cycles to get my 1" of water. There is a 2 hour gap from the time the first zone runs on the first cycle to when the first zone runs on the second cycle and so on.
Grass is cut down to 1 1/2 " but use to be at 3 to 3 1/2".
Issue:
The lawn is not flat as there is a slop so the water runs into the valley resulting in significant runoff/water waste!
I just took soil samples two days ago and the front yard has much more sand than the backyard has. Backyard is more black compacted clay. Front and back where sampled in multiple locations at a depth of 4-5".
Here are some pics and I hope you can see the water collection. Thoughts please!
Water pooling
Sloped yard
Wasted runoff
Here is the setup:
Front yard has 6 zones set at 19 min per zone. I run back to back run cycles so a total of 4 cycles to get my 1" of water. There is a 2 hour gap from the time the first zone runs on the first cycle to when the first zone runs on the second cycle and so on.
Grass is cut down to 1 1/2 " but use to be at 3 to 3 1/2".
Issue:
The lawn is not flat as there is a slop so the water runs into the valley resulting in significant runoff/water waste!
I just took soil samples two days ago and the front yard has much more sand than the backyard has. Backyard is more black compacted clay. Front and back where sampled in multiple locations at a depth of 4-5".
Here are some pics and I hope you can see the water collection. Thoughts please!
Water pooling
Sloped yard
Wasted runoff
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Water Runoff
The regular use of BLSC or commercial products to aid in getting the water to penetrate more easily will help, but otherwise the only thing you can do is shorten the cycles and increase the repetitions.
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- Posts: 75
- Joined: August 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm
- Location: Northlake TX
- Grass Type: Bermuda tiff 419
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
I looked up the soil conditioner so thanks for that. How often would I need to apply? How long to see benefit? Are there any reported negative effects?
If I kept my current watering schedule but did to cycles in the morning and then two in the afternoon would that still count as deep watering or would that be too much time in between waterings?
If I kept my current watering schedule but did to cycles in the morning and then two in the afternoon would that still count as deep watering or would that be too much time in between waterings?
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- Posts: 580
- Joined: July 25th, 2016, 4:51 pm
- Location: Grand Rapids, MI
- Grass Type: Bewitched KBG
- Lawn Size: 10000-20000
- Level: Experienced
Re: Water Runoff
I do monthly BLSC/KH applications from May through September, I noticed a difference within a couple of months.
For watering, you are just going to have to experiment with different things and see what works, every soil is different. I run two morning cycles back to back each one putting down 1/2". Seems to work for me.
For watering, you are just going to have to experiment with different things and see what works, every soil is different. I run two morning cycles back to back each one putting down 1/2". Seems to work for me.
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- Posts: 75
- Joined: August 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm
- Location: Northlake TX
- Grass Type: Bermuda tiff 419
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
How about this:
Goal - apply 1 inch of water or close to it on all six zones for the front yard without excessive runoff.
On previous water cycle my start time was 2 am, 4am, 6am and 8am with each zone at 19 min.
New proposed cycle start time 5am, 6am, 9am, 10am, 2pm, 3pm, 6pm, 7pm with each zone at 9 min. This should eliminate the runoff loss but will it provide the water needed to get close to 1 inch per week?
Goal - apply 1 inch of water or close to it on all six zones for the front yard without excessive runoff.
On previous water cycle my start time was 2 am, 4am, 6am and 8am with each zone at 19 min.
New proposed cycle start time 5am, 6am, 9am, 10am, 2pm, 3pm, 6pm, 7pm with each zone at 9 min. This should eliminate the runoff loss but will it provide the water needed to get close to 1 inch per week?
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Water Runoff
Use tuna cans or cat food cans to find out total water amount. You'll get some evaporative loss in the 2pm and 3pm waterings, but it should work.
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- Posts: 75
- Joined: August 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm
- Location: Northlake TX
- Grass Type: Bermuda tiff 419
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
Thanks Andy I did that already and thats how I came up with the times listed. What if I broke the water up into two times a week and did a half inch each time. So 1/2 inch on Wednesday morning and 1/2 inch on Saturday morning? This way I could run 10 min cycles starting at 6am and last cycle at 10am...
- andy10917
- Posts: 29739
- Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 10:48 pm
- Location: NY (Lower Hudson Valley)
- Grass Type: Emblem KBG (Front); Blueberry KBG Monostand (Back)
- Lawn Size: 1 acre-2 acre
- Level: Advanced
Re: Water Runoff
It's generally better to put it down all at once unless the soil is sandy - it goes deeper and the sun can't cook it off.
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- Posts: 75
- Joined: August 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm
- Location: Northlake TX
- Grass Type: Bermuda tiff 419
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
Think I will get a lawn chair and kick back and wait to see how much I can get in the ground before saturation and go from there...
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- Posts: 140
- Joined: September 15th, 2016, 5:16 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Grass Type: Southern mix
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
A little bit of a tangent, but in the Dallas area, TAMU has a little calculator for how much to water each week, based on the local weather conditions. It's called Water My Yard--https://watermyyard.org/#/Location.
The area it services might also include Northlake. You can enter your address to check. You might be able to reduce the number of cycles in wetter weeks.
The area it services might also include Northlake. You can enter your address to check. You might be able to reduce the number of cycles in wetter weeks.
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- Posts: 75
- Joined: August 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm
- Location: Northlake TX
- Grass Type: Bermuda tiff 419
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
Thanks GP as I will look into that. I did tis one just over a year ago...
"Thank-you for participating in the Upper Trinity Regional Water District Sprinkler System Evaluation Program by having your sprinkler system evaluated. Congratulations on already being informed about water conservation and doing activities to be efficient with your water consumption."
I get weekly water suggestions from "Water is Awesome" and I just signed up for the Water My Yard as well. Will be interesting to see how close they are in recommendations.
Based on the recommendation is was already getting I should apply 0 based on the last rain we received now going on 2 weeks ago. I thought I was suppose to put 1 inch per week?
"Thank-you for participating in the Upper Trinity Regional Water District Sprinkler System Evaluation Program by having your sprinkler system evaluated. Congratulations on already being informed about water conservation and doing activities to be efficient with your water consumption."
I get weekly water suggestions from "Water is Awesome" and I just signed up for the Water My Yard as well. Will be interesting to see how close they are in recommendations.
Based on the recommendation is was already getting I should apply 0 based on the last rain we received now going on 2 weeks ago. I thought I was suppose to put 1 inch per week?
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- Posts: 140
- Joined: September 15th, 2016, 5:16 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Grass Type: Southern mix
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
The one inch per week recommendation is the broadest recommendation, knowing nothing about weather and temperatures. I'm guessing very few parts of the country have a water monitoring/recommendation program like Water My Yard, but people still need to know how much to water, so the 1" rule (for bermuda) is what we tell everyone.
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- Posts: 75
- Joined: August 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm
- Location: Northlake TX
- Grass Type: Bermuda tiff 419
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
Got it GP...
I made some adjustments based on my last watering experience and "Water My Yard" and "water is Awesome". I will continue to monitor for runoff as this is a concern.
New Schedule:
Start Times - 4, 6, 8 and 10 am
Water all goes down during the 4 run cycles. Zone run time varies between 3 and 20 min for each zone per cycle.
This is so fun....
I made some adjustments based on my last watering experience and "Water My Yard" and "water is Awesome". I will continue to monitor for runoff as this is a concern.
New Schedule:
Start Times - 4, 6, 8 and 10 am
Water all goes down during the 4 run cycles. Zone run time varies between 3 and 20 min for each zone per cycle.
This is so fun....
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- Posts: 140
- Joined: September 15th, 2016, 5:16 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Grass Type: Southern mix
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
With use of the soil conditioner and good management practices, you'll see an increase in soil OM and more worms; more and deeper roots, which loosens soil. That will help your runoff problem in the long term.
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- Posts: 3871
- Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 2:28 am
- Location: Utah (Wasatch Front)
- Grass Type: Western, Streambank, Crested wheatgrass in front (with blue grama added in the heckstrips), sheep fescue in back; strawberry clovetr in both
- Lawn Size: 3000-5000
- Level: Experienced
Re: Water Runoff
I water starting at 12:01 AM. You'll see lots of recommendations not to water at night because nighttime watering can increase the chances of fungal problems in the lawn, but the people who caution about fungal problems live in parts of the country where they use words like "humidity" and "rain" and "dew" (and maybe some others). If I had only ever lived in Utah, I'd think these words all described imaginary things.
We don't need to worry about fungal pressure from watering at night. I like to be finished with watering before 6 AM to maximize the amount of water that actually makes it into the soil. If I couldn't get enough water down starting at 12:01 AM, I'd go with 9 PM and 11 PM one day, then 1, 3, 5 AM the next day. If I needed 6 cycles, I'd go with 8 and 10 PM, 12:01 (just because I'm not sure how my timer treats 12:00), 2, 4, 6 AM. That means the last cycle starts when I like to finish, but it still finishes before it starts getting hot.
If you an get the water down in 4 passes, I'd use 12, 2, 4, 6 rather than 4, 6, 8, 10. If you start at 6, you're finishing before 8. But if you start at 10, you may be finishing after 11, which is probably really getting into the heat of the day in Dallas. Where I live, we're not even allowed to water between 10 AM and 6 PM because we lose so much to evaporation when the sun is out (first offense $50, second offense $250; third offense water is shut off).
We don't need to worry about fungal pressure from watering at night. I like to be finished with watering before 6 AM to maximize the amount of water that actually makes it into the soil. If I couldn't get enough water down starting at 12:01 AM, I'd go with 9 PM and 11 PM one day, then 1, 3, 5 AM the next day. If I needed 6 cycles, I'd go with 8 and 10 PM, 12:01 (just because I'm not sure how my timer treats 12:00), 2, 4, 6 AM. That means the last cycle starts when I like to finish, but it still finishes before it starts getting hot.
If you an get the water down in 4 passes, I'd use 12, 2, 4, 6 rather than 4, 6, 8, 10. If you start at 6, you're finishing before 8. But if you start at 10, you may be finishing after 11, which is probably really getting into the heat of the day in Dallas. Where I live, we're not even allowed to water between 10 AM and 6 PM because we lose so much to evaporation when the sun is out (first offense $50, second offense $250; third offense water is shut off).
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- Posts: 75
- Joined: August 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm
- Location: Northlake TX
- Grass Type: Bermuda tiff 419
- Lawn Size: Not Specified
- Level: Not Specified
Re: Water Runoff
Good points bpgreen and you saved me money!
- Dchall_San_Antonio
- Posts: 3341
- Joined: December 17th, 2008, 1:53 am
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
- Grass Type: St Augustine
- Lawn Size: 5000-10000
- Level: Advanced
Re: Water Runoff
The whole point of watering deeply and infrequently is to stop people from watering every day - and I'm looking at YOU Florida and California. After your soil has accepted deep and infrequent watering, either by BLSC or by interval watering, it should improve and take the water deeper with longer watering intervals. For many people the deep and infrequent approach has been transformational to their lawn's appearance. Structurally you will notice that after a rainfall or long irrigation, the soil remains very soft underfoot for several days until it dries out again. Picture a soft wet sponge and how it stiffens as it dries out. That's what your soil will become.
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