Lawn disaster

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Brian M
Posts: 31
Joined: July 16th, 2020, 8:10 am
Location: Westchester county, NY
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Lawn disaster

Post by Brian M » July 25th, 2020, 9:34 pm

Image

In the spring there was grass, I swear! Lol

Ok, quick run down... first off, I have no idea what I’m doing, that said... I bought the house 18 months ago, have been very busy on work inside the house, I paid zero attention to the lawn. I fell like it wasn’t so bad last year, but now it’s just embarrassing.

By mid June I realized it was completely overrun by crab grass, and I’m sure much other stuff I don’t know. I sprayed roundup for lawns in late June. It’s killing a lot of the weeds but also burned my grass, up close you can see more actual grass than in the picture. Probably shouldn’t have done that in the high heat. Then someone told me about tenacity. I did a blanket coat of that in mid July. Well this is what I got now.

I did a soil test and posted the results in the soil forum and am awaiting advise on treating that. My question here is how would you seed this?

I was thinking another spray of a chemical to get rid of the rest of the weeds, heavy power rake, seed, lawn roller, peat moss dressing? Should I aerate? How much peat moss for 5000sqft of lawn.

Any and all advice is appreciated!

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by schreibdave » July 26th, 2020, 1:08 pm

When you say you used "round up for lawns" do you mean Weed b Gone? Round up will kill everything. Weed b Gone will kill most common weeds, though not crab grass.

And Tenacity ... unless you used the correct dose and applied it at the right rate, that'll kill a lot of good grass too. Tenacity also does not do a great job on many common weeds. I would put that away until you are further along in your lawn care education.

I think you need to slow down and get some pig picture advice from people here. Getting a soil test is great. That will get you good advice on what fertilizer to use and when.

For weeds, if I were you I would stick to weeb b gone in a pump sprayer. That will kill 99% of what most people consider weeds.

In terms of planting new seed, I don't know where you are in southern NYS but here in Syracuse the best date for that is August 15. Wherever you are is likley latter than that.

Good luck!

Brian M
Posts: 31
Joined: July 16th, 2020, 8:10 am
Location: Westchester county, NY
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by Brian M » July 26th, 2020, 1:52 pm

The round up was not normal round up. It said safe for kbg fescue rye.. Active ingredient is dimythelsomething salt

So I have new information as well, I talked to old landscaper who cared for this lawn prior to me. Said there used to be 4 mature oaks and he planted shade mix seed. Those tress are since down, so I don’t think that grass had a shot to begin with.

And yes, big picture Advice is exactly why I’m on here.

I live in Westchester county so my date for seed is a week or 2 after you I’d imagine.

I have the time and energy, just kinda need to be told what to do.

northeastlawn
Posts: 1259
Joined: June 1st, 2015, 3:10 pm
Location: S.E. Mass.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by northeastlawn » July 26th, 2020, 3:40 pm

Mentioning aeration and all those details brings up warning signs, but you seem to be planning on an over-seed or Reno and seem to be considering the steps needed. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of great grass to save in there, if you add the fine fescue to the mix, you might be better off with a full Reno. Tenacity will fry FF real easy, I’m not suprised a does of weed-b-gone then tenacity hurt the FF.

FF doesn’t do great in the full sun, and browns in the heat. There are better options. If you ever thought KBG and have the means to water it on a timer For a long time, than now might be the time. If watering is an issue TTTF is drought resistant and can deal with sun better. PR would be a good choice for a quick germination and is better than FF in full sun. The more I take care of my lawn, the less I like northern mixes, I think most people are better off picking a lawn type. FF has its place, but it’s a difficult grass to care for and has a lot of draw backs.

Definatly use tenacity at seed Down, but if you do a full Reno and want to start from scratch use glysophate to kill off the weeds and the rest of the lawn.

If you rake well aeration isn’t needed and only brings up the weed seeds.

The roller is a nice addition, make sure you water the day before and get the soil nice and moist so the seeds are pressed in by the roofer.

With my compost spreader 1 XL ( 5.5cf ) bale covers about 1,000sf. Maybe 4-5 x 5.5 cf for 5,000sf. Peat moss comes in various sizes (s,m,l,xl) the xl are harder to find but usually get you the most bang for your buck.

Your getting close to the cut off date to get all your supplies together. Because the wx can change so much this time of year, it’s always good to have everything on hand. A rainy streak is a good excuse to do it early, and big down pours are a good excuse to hold off a week. That’s why you get your supplies ready a few weeks before.

Lastly you didn’t mention how you were watering it. Now is when you you should be planning and test8ng how you will keep the seeds moist.

Brian M
Posts: 31
Joined: July 16th, 2020, 8:10 am
Location: Westchester county, NY
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by Brian M » July 26th, 2020, 5:05 pm

Thanks for the very detailed response!

Full Reno vs overseed.. I don’t think I’m ready for Reno. I don’t have supplies, soil is not right, my experience level too low. I think I should just get some seed down that gives me a decent lawn, get my soil right, and learn. Maybe in 2 or 3 years do a Reno. I don’t mind the work! This year is for learning.

Seed I bought is Jonathan green black beauty ultra. Typical northern mix. Seemed to me it was the best graded seed I found locally. I could always drop that on my side yard (which is a whole nother beast) and put something else if you suggest it.

Irrigation.. I was playing with sprinklers all day today. I just got an orbits tripod with full metal head. Good reach, seemed to be ok. I have to get a splitter and see if I can run 2 at once, then just move them down every 20 mins or so while germinating. 3/4” hoses would probably help, but hardware store didn’t have any.

And wow that’s a lot less compost than I thought I would need. I was thinking a couple of yards. Good to know

Ok to sum up your guys suggestions:

Maybe one more app of weed be gone, just because it can’t hurt grass that isn’t there lol!
Rake
Water
Seed
Roll
Top dress
Tenacity
Fertilize as per recommendation from soil mngmt post
Water, water, water

If I’m missing anything please let me know.

Thanks again for the help! It’s VERY much appreciated!


northeastlawn
Posts: 1259
Joined: June 1st, 2015, 3:10 pm
Location: S.E. Mass.
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 1000-3000
Level: Experienced

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by northeastlawn » July 26th, 2020, 8:15 pm

Just to be clear peat moss is just to hold in moisture, its not a fertilizer like compost. Some people use it as a top dressing, but leveling your lawn and adding compost is a totally different step and isn't needed if your over-seeding or doing a full reno, although leveling any bad spots is a good idea.

Also Peat moss seems to be commercial product, I have never seen not sold in bulk in its raw form. The only way I have ever seen it sold was in bales.

If you sprayed tenacity over peat moss I am not sure if it would work. Again I think you are confusing something brought into level the yard with something used to cover the seed and keep it from drying out.

I typically....

1.) Water the night before well
2.) Rake the whole yard in two directions (90deg) really well to scuff up the lawn (it technically will disturb weed seeds, but I am trying to get good seed to soil contact)
3.) Spread the seeds
4.) Roll the lawn (if you roll a wet lawn or peat moss you pick up all the seeds you spread)
5.) Spray tenacity
6.) Spread peat moss
7.) Gently mist peat moss to lock it down
8.) When it dries run the sprinkler and get it decently wet
9.) set the timer for 3-4 times a day for about 15min
10.) Hope and pray I have grass in a few weeks

Its not a bad idea to wait and learn before doing full reno, I did; but you have to understand how long it can take to get a KBG lawn looking good. The 1st summer of a KBG lawn is like taking care of a baby, and the KBG doesn't spread great until like its 3rd year, then watch out, it spreads like crazy.

So if you went with KBG your looking at 2-3 years before it starts to take off and be the lawn you expect. Then again i had a huge POA-A problem, and the poa-a really held my KBG back for 2 growing seasons.

The thing about the Northern mix PR your using is that once its stablished it tends to prevent other grass types from germinating. So you may be locked into this grass type once you over-seed with it. You won't get great results cutting other grass types into it.

that said PR germinates in 7-14 days and seems to be a very forgiving grass to care for. You just have to remember it might take a few annual over-seeds to get good coverage. It won't spread on its own like KBG. I have recommended less double eagle PR to a few people, and it has come out really nice.

jskierko
Posts: 72
Joined: May 10th, 2019, 9:27 pm
Location: Central Indiana
Grass Type: Northern Mix
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by jskierko » July 26th, 2020, 8:17 pm

Depending on what your target date is for seeding, you are cutting it close for a weed treatment. You will have to read product labels, but most of the weed be gone type products (2,4-D, dicamba, etc.) recommend waiting at least 2 weeks or more to seed.

schreibdave
Posts: 1123
Joined: April 14th, 2010, 7:01 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY
Grass Type: Bewitched, Award and Rhapsody
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Experienced

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by schreibdave » July 26th, 2020, 9:08 pm

Like Northeastlawn, I am also a fan of Lesco Double Eagle Perennial Rye. The only problem I had with it is winter kill. It does not like the Syracuse winters. But your climate should be more mild. It establishes quickly and looks really good.

Last year I renovated most of my lawn to KBG and I will do the last part this year. KBG is a big improvement from PR. And in my case it got established very quickly. It's not quite a year old and it is very, very thick. Cut at 4" it's almost hard to walk on it's so dense.

Brian M
Posts: 31
Joined: July 16th, 2020, 8:10 am
Location: Westchester county, NY
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by Brian M » July 28th, 2020, 8:36 am

One more question: what should I do with this stuff? There’s about a 20x30 patch and some more sprinkled through out. Is this chickweed? With the power rake pull it up and I can deal with it next year?

Image

Image

Brian M
Posts: 31
Joined: July 16th, 2020, 8:10 am
Location: Westchester county, NY
Grass Type: TTTF/KBG
Lawn Size: 20000-1 acre
Level: Some Experience

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by Brian M » November 1st, 2020, 11:49 am

Came out ok.. you can see the bare spots where trees used to be. I’ll keep working on it
Image

lVlrBoJang1es
Posts: 122
Joined: March 29th, 2017, 11:59 am
Location: Western Michigan
Grass Type: KBG
Lawn Size: 10000-20000
Level: Some Experience

Re: Lawn disaster

Post by lVlrBoJang1es » November 3rd, 2020, 2:02 pm

"ok.."?!

That's a pretty remarkable improvement from where you were at in half a season! Nice work!!

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