Tenacity use during overseeding after Pylex

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
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DocV
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Tenacity use during overseeding after Pylex

Post by DocV » August 19th, 2020, 10:04 am

In discussions with BASF on the recommended application regimen for Pylex (topramezone) to remove Bermudagrass from TTTF they recommended the following:

"Mid-August 1.5 fl oz / acre Pylex + 32 fl oz / acre triclopyr
Early-Mid September (21 days from previous app) 1.5 fl oz / acre Pylex + 32 fl oz / acre triclopyr
Early October (21 days from previous app) 1.0 fl oz / acre Pylex + seed if needed

You could easily move the initial application time line up to July and proceed from there. Any time sooner the bermuda has the ability to fight through it."

I am planning to use Tenacity (mesotrione) as a pre-emergent when overseeding. I am concerned about damaging the pre-existing TTTF by applying both Tenacity and Pylex in the same time frame due to them both being HPPD inhibitors. Perhaps applying Tenacity 1 week before the final Pylex application or waiting a week after the final Pylex app to overseed and apply Tenacity to allow time for the fescue to recover a bit from the Tenacity is a plan. Does anyone have experience with the timing of these two herbicides when overseeding?

stevehollx
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Re: Tenacity use during overseeding after Pylex

Post by stevehollx » September 15th, 2020, 9:00 pm

In a similar situation. I have a strong Nimblewill patch. Used 2x tenacity apps this spring before the nimblewill woke up. Reserved last 2 tenacity apps for overseeding. Didn’t want to spend money on Pylex, so didn’t address my nimblewill issue in TTTF.

Scalped the lawn and overseeded on 6-Sep.

I found a PPT where pylex + tenacity at the same time was favorable. But it feels scary. I haven’t done it.
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/defrankj/S ... S_2016.pdf

What has happened:
6-Sep: Tenacity and overseed.
10-Sep: First germination observed.

My plan:
8-Oct: Second tenacity.
15 or 23-Oct: Thinking to spot spray pylex on those spots lit up from tenacity. Thinking to play aggressive and do it 1w after tenacity since first frost could be 23-Oct in charlotte.

Backup plan, follow the BASF plan in July next year and overseed the areas.

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Re: Tenacity use during overseeding after Pylex

Post by stevehollx » September 15th, 2020, 9:09 pm

This study has Tenacity + Pylex info—you should be good for mature TTTF through seed down:
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/defrankj/S ... S_2016.pdf

I am in the same boat, with Nimblewill. I applied tenacity at overseeding 6-Sep. I will reapply around 10-Oct, and then plan to spot spray Roundup for Crabgrass Destroyer a week after that if nimblewill is still active.

I’ve heard pylex is tough on new fescue, but not substantiated.

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Re: Tenacity use during overseeding after Pylex

Post by KBGkicksazz » September 16th, 2020, 6:31 am

Check out University of Nebraska - Lincoln study on Tenacity/ mesiotrone.

There is a misconception on ATY about how to use these products as a one and done at seed down.

These HPPD inhibitors work best when applying them at GERMINATION.

It’s not going to hurt your desired grass and is more effective at controlling weeds. I’ll post up the study when I find it again.

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Re: Tenacity use during overseeding after Pylex

Post by KBGkicksazz » September 16th, 2020, 4:07 pm

The take home message is the most effective weed control with Tenacity is to apply it at germination/emergence rather than seed down.

http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/Co ... nrenov.pdf

There’s an actual paper out there somewhere I could not find it.

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andy10917
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Re: Tenacity use during overseeding after Pylex

Post by andy10917 » September 16th, 2020, 5:23 pm

There is a misconception on ATY about how to use these products as a one and done at seed down.

Isn't the below (which was taken right off the Tenacity label) interesting? That's the manufacturer's directions. It seem to be pretty straightforward about NOT putting it on newly-germinatred grass

Apply at grass seeding or close to seeding for best performance. Avoid spraying on newly germinated turfgrass plants.

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Re: Tenacity use during overseeding after Pylex

Post by stevehollx » September 16th, 2020, 5:34 pm

Agree that finding doesn’t seem logical. Also, why would spraying at germination instead of overseed change the outcomes of the weeds? The weeds don’t know the timeline of the turf seed germination, after all.

They definitely don’t want you spraying on new seedlings otherwise they wouldn’t have the +30d from germination or 2 mow clause, since for mature grass the guidance is a span of every 2wks.

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Re: Tenacity use during overseeding after Pylex

Post by MorpheusPA » September 16th, 2020, 5:52 pm

Yeah, definitely do not apply Tenacity on newly-germinated grasses. Ask me about how I know this to be a Really, Really Bad Idea.

I have, upon occasion, given the OK to spray Tenacity as much as 2 days post-seeding, realizing that the radicle (embryonic root) might have begun to emerge on some seed and that these are likely to be damaged. I won't go any further than that, however, and I've still been relatively negative about the idea.

Also, it really, really does work well as a 30-day pre-emergent. I've used it in a small flower bed at the edge of the property that I just didn't want to be constantly after all season long and where I knew the plants (sunflower, already well-established and three feet tall) wouldn't mind the ground spraying. They sort of did--the flowers weren't the advertised color, but rather three tones lighter--but there certainly weren't any June weeds.

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