Just bought house - need help with plan

[Ohio2112]

My brother just bought his first house and I need some help coming up with a plan for what we can do before the ground freezes.

He should get the keys the last week of this month. We really can't do anything except plan until then.

Goal: Hit it with anything and everything to give the current lawn the best chance to look it's best.

Location: 10 miles south of Cleveland, OH. (His zip is 44147)

Condition: Rough shape. Half weeds half grass. Most of the grass is pretty fine. Hardly any bare spots. I'm guessing it is a fescue / rye mix. It appears that nothing has been done anywhere outside for a long time.

Sun: Some gets around the trees here and there but definitely not full sun anywhere.

Sometimes we get our first snow in November but it always melts pretty quick. Last year we did the last mowing Thanksgiving weekend. I've done it as late as mid December.

Not sure about going organic yet, but spraying some compost tea and one or both of the aroundtheyard.com homemade brews is very doable. I plan to get soil tests asap.

I know we won't have much time this year to do too much, but whatever makes sense I'm willing to do. Heck, I'm willing to run the aerator in a snowstorm if it would help.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[andy10917]

Can you get some pictures?

And forget about the first snow - when is the first hard freeze and when is the ground frozen?

[eriocaulon]

Dang! I live 10 miles south of Cleveland. My zip is 44147. Small world! Tell him welcome to the neighborhood for me!

I would hit it with weed-b-gone and make sure to put down some late fall fertilizer early November. If he has a fescue/rye mix, try putting some PRG down now.

Edit: I just read the getting the keys part later this month. weed-b-gone and fert then. If you are so inclined, send off a soil test. If it is as bad as you say, winter seed and put down tupersan in the early spring.

[Ohio2112]

Man you're not kidding it's a small world!
He is less than a mile from 77 & Wallings.
I'm out east in Mentor, about a mile south of the lake.

Do you happen to know the dates of the first hard freeze and when is the ground frozen that Andy is asking about?
Usually google comes through, but this info is hidden pretty well.

I'll get some pics as soon as I can.

Any reason not to aerate before fertilizing?
The ground is pretty hard.

[eriocaulon]

Sorry, I have no idea when the freeze dates are nor when the ground freezes.

I think it would be worthwhile to core aerate now, but at the end of this month? Not so sure. If his soil is anything like mine, pH is high and K,P are low. I core aerate just about every fall and see good results from it.

I am further south of him--just off Broadview Rd and south of 82. This was my first home purchase in 2003 and find that Broadview Hts is a great city to live in. If he has any questions about the area, let me know.

[Bestlawn]

Here's an article on late fall lawn care.

Core aerate in October? In Ohio?

[Ohio2112]

Bestlawn: Thanks for the link to the Late Fall Lawn Care article.
I've read it before, but I'm looking for extraordinary measures.
The lawn is in pretty rough shape.
This is my brother's first house.
I really want to do everything possible to give the lawn the best shot at looking really nice next year.
Isn't there something more I can do than remove leaves & twigs, spay WBG and do the final fert?
What about a dose of the aroundtheyard.com replacements for Nature's Magic or Aerify?

Here's some pics.

These are the front right & front left.



This is the left side


This is a look at the back.


The rest are some close-ups to show the wide variety of weeds and the grass that is hanging on.

[andy10917]

Here's one idiot's first reaction:

- W----A----Y too much shade. Either the trees or the grass have to come off the table. WBG with that much shade and competition is going to be know as an Interim Period between shade-tolerant weed infestations. And that opinion comes from a guy that believes in tons of mature trees.

- the weeds are not the garden-variety ho-hummers. While I couldn't blow up the current pictures, I'm sure I see some ground ivy and maybe wild violets --- both shade-tolerant nasties that will laugh at you when you show up with puny WBG. I think I hear them laughing now. Heavier-duty stuff like Triclopyr will stop the laughing, but you will run out of time to defeat them in 2009. That means they get to recover until Spring.

- If you/he decide to give up on the trees, I will give you a shipping address for the gorgeous Blue Spruce. You're paying the shipping, right?

[bpgreen]

One thing to keep in mind is that your brother will be taking possession at the end of October. That limits his options in a lot of ways. He definitely can't do a renovation. he can follow the advice in the article Mallory (aka bestlawn) linked). He can also decide whether he wants to try to dormant seed (if the grass is really thin). If he does a dormant seeding, he won't be able to use a pre emergent in the spring.

For the shady areas, he could use a fine fescue seed mix (like Bonny Dunes). Fine fescues do much better in shade than KBG does. Fine fescue does well with little water, but suffers in heat, so I think you'll have much better results with a dormant seeding than with a spring seeding (and the same caveat apples regarding pre-m).

[eriocaulon]

That's a nice property with lovely mature trees. I wouldn't get too worked up about the lawn this year. Looks like he will have his hands full dealing with the leaves. Fine fescues sounds good to me too.

[clay&crabgrass]

nice prop., hope the price was right--hehehehehe, hope he stole it.

brother probably has to get the interior up and running, remodel? then it's on to the essentials-plumbing, wiring, HVAC.
the yard can wait, it'll still be there.
1-soil test(s)
2-good, on grid drawings of the prop., showing shaded areas, areas of concern.
3-lose the bad trees, keep the good ones. (sometimes ya just got to wonder about previous owners, huh?)
4- results of soil test should be the basis for a plan. brother is going to be there for several years, no hurry.

[Bestlawn]

Ohio, the simplest things work the greatest wonders. The basics of proper watering, mowing, and fertilizing should always be your first step/thought in caring for a lawn, even a neglected one. All I see about your pictures is the lawn needs some deep watering and proper mowing, and try to spread some compost or compost tea. Organic matter is always important. But first clean up the leaves.

1. In the most dense areas of leaves, spread them/blow them around into the more scattered areas and then mulch mow them. You just don't want to smother the lawn with too much mulched leaves. You or he should be mowing regularly so the leaves don't have a chance to build up. Ask him to make sure the grass goes into winter free of leaves on the lawn. Also, determine now the winter cutting height. I think 3 inches is fine year 'round but some of the guys like to go half an inch lower for winter. Begin now to mow at the height it will stay through winter. Mow it down gradually over 3-4 days if you need to in order to prevent removing more than 1/3 of the height.

2. Fertilize now because you still have time for one more before the last one of the year. That'll be two for fall and that's fine.

3. Irrigate deeply once a week for the next 3-4 weeks.

I'll bet the current occupants will allow him to do these things if he asks. Best not to have to wait another 2-3 weeks to get started.

4. Dormant seed fine fescues as suggested. December or January just before a big snowfall is a good time. The only thing is no weed control now or in spring except to use Tupersan/Siduron. That will help prevent crabgrass and other grassy weeds. After the lawn (the new growth from winter sowing) has been mowed 3-4 times, you can begin working on the dandelions, ground ivy, clover and other broadleaf.

*****************************

You can apply Nitron, Aerify, Nature's Magic, or the Bestlawn equivalent if you want, but you don't have to feel desperate to do it now. Honestly, the lawn doesn't look good, but it doesn't look awful either.

Congrats to your brother on his new house. It's such a nice property.

[Ohio2112]

Thank you all for the excellent suggestions and nice comments.
Lots of good ideas to ponder.

You probably can tell I'm chomping at the bit to get my hands dirty again.
Sitting on the front step watching my new lawn grow is exciting only for so long.

It really is a nice house and yard.
The inside is actually in move-in condition, which is a good thing, since I do better with soil than spackling.

Andy: Pretty sure the blue spruces are staying.
There's another one in the back about the same size as the one in the front. They are gorgeous.
Thanks for the tip on Triclopyr. Didn't know that about WBG.
I sent an email to the local OSU extension office trying to get the freeze dates.

[andy10917]

8% Triclopyr is in WBG Clover/Chickweed/Oxalis Killer and Brush-B-Gon Poison Ivy Killer. It's actually exactly the same product with different label instructions.

[Abyss]

worry about the lawn for next fall. If you want, hit it with a weed killer, and a fert application and call it a day. Come spring, either prune, or have someone come in and prune all the trees. I'm sure theres a lot of overgrowth up in them.

I did a reno in my friends front yard with 2 huge maples. They get 2-4 hours of sun in a lot of the front yard, and in a few places probably less. I hit it with bonny dunes in the spring (we had a lot of rain, followed by heat), and came back with a tall fescue/america bluegrass mixture this fall, and its coming in real strong

[Ohio2112]

Thanks for the input Abyss.

I think for the first year it makes sense to keep it simple and do what we can with what is already there. And also get the soil tested to know what we are working with there. Who knows, with a little tlc, it might look really nice.

Andy: Are you saying to use WBG Clover/Chickweed/Oxalis Killer / Brush-B-Gon Poison Ivy Killer or straight Triclopyr?

[GaryCinChicago]

Andy: Are you saying to use WBG Clover/Chickweed/Oxalis Killer / Brush-B-Gon Poison Ivy Killer or straight Triclopyr?

Not Andy, but both of those products are identical, containing 8% Triclopyr, only labeled differently. (buy the one on sale)
Commercial grade products contain 60+ percent Triclopyr.
Straight Triclopyr is not available to end users.

[Ohio2112]

Not Andy, but both of those products are identical, containing 8% Triclopyr, only labeled differently. (buy the one on sale)
Commercial grade products contain 60+ percent Triclopyr.
Straight Triclopyr is not available to end users.

OK - Thanks Gary.

[andy10917]

I specify 8% Triclopyr because people say "well, WBG Max has Triclopyr". Yeah, 1.5%. Ground Ivy and Wild Violets laugh at that. The 8% stuff works if used three times 10-14 days apart each application. Whichever 8% product you use, look up the instructions for WBG CCO Killer.

[Ohio2112]

Will do Andy - thanks.