Fall Nitrogen Regimens

[Fullheadofturf1234]

As early as September eh?

By starter I meant like a general purpose 13-13-13 or a 20-20-20.

I’m assuming any p or k would take about 5-8 weeks to integrate into soil putting it in that red zone.

Almost impossible window to avoid the heat wave and the snow mold range.
Maybe next season I’ll commit fully if I get my irrigation coverage fixed and push through the hot month of July.

[andy10917]

As early as September eh?

Yessir.

By starter I meant like a general purpose 13-13-13 or a 20-20-20.

Starters have a high P number. "Balanced" fertilizers are what you are thinking.

Maybe next season I’ll commit fully if I get my irrigation coverage fixed and push through the hot month of July.

The concept of "PUSHING" anything in July is a very bad idea. That is stressful, and July stress is August fungal "opportunity".

[rucraz2]

Andy, what are your thoughts on dissolving and going liquid vs granular. I feel I can get more accurate coverage spraying vs using my larger spreader. Does it need to be watered in as much or any sooner than granular? I haven't done it yet myself.

[andy10917]

Foliar feedings of fertilizers can only be a small fraction of what soil treatments can be, and they leach much more easily (what will dissolve in water will dissolve in rain).

I personally don't put much value in them.

[llO0DQLE]

But what if you apply with a sprayer and wash it down to the soil?

[Green]

But what if you apply with a sprayer and wash it down to the soil?

Then you've given up the foliar part. I saw a study showing that to be foliar, it needs to stay on the grass for a certain amount of time, which makes sense. That time element was between a half hour and 24 hours, depending.

Were you thinking more along the line of spraying larger amounts of N like a half pound? If so, that's what TrueGreen does. They use a higher spray volume, though. It ends up being both soil and foliar. They also tend to use Urea Triazone fertilizers.

[Riverpilot]

Going to try the aggressive regimen this year.
One question that I do have is regarding watering the urea in. Reading through this thread and various others, am I correct in thinking it's ok to put the urea down one day, say noon, then water it in the next morning?

Other than that, I'm ready to rock.

[Green]

Going to try the aggressive regimen this year.
One question that I do have is regarding watering the urea in. Reading through this thread and various others, am I correct in thinking it's ok to put the urea down one day, say noon, then water it in the next morning?

Other than that, I'm ready to rock.

Yes. Even when it's 80 degrees, you won't lose much to volatilization in that short a time.

[fun4me2]

I have a question.
I've always done the standard fall regime. (northern mix lawn)
In the past, I've used the Scott TurfBuilder 32-0-4 with iron (5,000 sf)
I've been applying the full bag around Labor Day, then again another bag when the grass finally stops growing, which usually is in November.
My question is am I doing the right thing by dropping it all at once or should I be applying the 1#/1K per month.
My first average frost date is Sept. 28 that's why I thought dropping the full bag around Labor Day was the way to go.
But I'm rethinking this....or am I "overthinking" it.

[andy10917]

One question that I do have is regarding watering the urea in. Reading through this thread and various others, am I correct in thinking it's ok to put the urea down one day, say noon, then water it in the next morning?

I am not a big fan of applying Urea one day and waiting until the next day to water it in.

People make the discussion about volatilization, but I don't feel that's the major point. Open your eyes and look at what happens this time of the year - there are heavier morning dews that make the Urea prills mushy, but the dew is not enough to get the Urea into the soil column. That's a lot of Nitrogen at the very top of the soil.

You can't always do the perfect practice right on time, but OKing this as a best-practice is missing the point when it becomes a standard and volatilization becomes the reasoning. Whenever possible, water in Urea soon after applying if you're looking to do things right. I know where the volatilization discussion started, and they are making multiple mistakes about the regimen that they hijacked. Please don't copy their mistakes back to here - I try very hard to not let this thread get polluted with poor practices and weaker reasoning.

[Riverpilot]

One question that I do have is regarding watering the urea in. Reading through this thread and various others, am I correct in thinking it's ok to put the urea down one day, say noon, then water it in the next morning?

I am not a big fan of applying Urea one day and waiting until the next day to water it in.

People make the discussion about volatilization, but I don't feel that's the major point. Open your eyes and look at what happens this time of the year - there are heavier morning dews that make the Urea prills mushy, but the dew is not enough to get the Urea into the soil column. That's a lot of Nitrogen at the very top of the soil.

You can't always do the perfect practice right on time, but OKing this as a best-practice is missing the point when it becomes a standard and volatilization becomes the reasoning. Whenever possible, water in Urea soon after applying if you're looking to do things right.

Which is why I asked about an afternoon dropping of urea, grass is dried out, but then you would have dew forming later in the night before the watering in the early morning hours. Got it... drop and water.

Thanks much Andy.

[andy10917]

No problem! I just hope you understand that I'm just trying to keep the thread to best-practices, and that if you have to deviate, that you know what the ramifications are...

[northeastlawn]

Fine Fescue question, brought on by something in another thread.......

I have three small hell strips of fine fescue that is doing very well in the partial shade so far. In the past I just had a northern mix and put down 0.25#N/k like the rest of the yard. This year I now have 100% KBG in the back and fine fescue in the front.

I read that I don't want to go aggressive ( 0.5#N/K ) with FF and its also is in the shade. Would I be better off just using Urea in the back with the KBG and dropping BSF weekly in the front?

I feel like the FF does need some fertilizer after this summer, just not sure if BSF would be better than weekly does of Urea. Especially because the sun changes angle in the fall and the FF areas gets a lot less sun because its blocked by the house.

[andy10917]

If it's all FF in the front, I'd stick with BSF Labor Day and one more treatment right before your first frost. BSF won't work once the soil really cools, so the Late Fall winterization is either skipped, or 0.25 lbs/K of Urea at growth stoppage. That is just an educated guess - I have not tested the Fall Nitrogen Regimen(s) on an all-FF lawn.

[northeastlawn]

Thanks....

I always read the FF and grass in the shade shook get 1/2 the fertilizer of the lawn in full sun. I may just try that out on the FF sections.

I will drop BSF at bag rate on Sept. 1st and Oct 1st. My avg. first frost is Oct. 20th.

Ill save the urea for the winterizer when it stops growing and go 0.25#N/K .

[Fullheadofturf1234]

How much does urea need to be watered in?
Is it critical to water in throughout all regimens Or just the winterizer dose?
Rained here all morning and the grass is moist but I’m guessing that’s not sufficient? (Or is it?)

[TimmyG]

How much does urea need to be watered in?

It is generally recommended here to water in urea with at least 0.25". The more the merrier. You want the prills to dissolve and soak into the soil, not just turn them to mush and sit on the soil.

Is it critical to water in throughout all regimens Or just the winterizer dose?

Yes. No. I think Andy answered this well enough in his post above.

Rained here all morning and the grass is moist but I’m guessing that’s not sufficient? (Or is it?)

See answer to your first question.

[northeastlawn]

The amounts of Urea seem very small when I weight them out for 2,000sf. In the past I have mixed the 0.5#/k Urea with 6# BSF/k just to be able to spread it.

Do you think there is any harm in mixing Urea with BSF to make it easier to spread, or am I better off just throwing it our by hand?

It seems like even throwing it out by hand I will be very easy to go over the amounts. The down side is if I stop Oct. 20th, the BSF could still be breaking down in the soil.

[andy10917]

Mixing is not an issue, but mixing slow-release and fast-release can make it tough to know how much residual Nitrogen is still awaiting processing at the surface of the soil. Keep the amounts on BSF reasonably trim.

[TimmyG]

2,000 sq. ft.? Absolutely do yourself a favor and pick up a Scotts Wizz Spreader. Heck, I've used one on 22,000 sq. ft.