Fall Nitrogen Regimens

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llO0DQLE
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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by llO0DQLE » November 8th, 2018, 9:38 pm

I'm happy with my winterizer app this year. I paused beginning of Sept. due to unseasonally low temps, well below average, around freezing. Avg first frost for me is Sept 11 - 21, depending on weather station, more like Sept 11 for my exact location. I monitored grass growth, air temps, soil temps etc to predict when grass would stop growing. I kept checking for top growth by mowing with a bag every 5 days and assessing how much clippings I get. Around the last 2 weeks of October, we had an Indian Summer and temps went above average. Grass kept growing albeit slowly. By end of October, I had about a handful of grass clippings from after each of my last two mows and usually, we get snow by Halloween, and almost guaranteed to be at or below freezing by first week of November and be covered in snow as well. Even though I had a bit of grass growth on my last mow around October 26, after seeing that the 10 day forecast was going to have temps go to freezing by Nov. 5-ish and snow in the forecast, I decided to drop winterizer. It worked out well. I got about a week of sun and temps slightly above freezing that I believe my winterizer was able to work, unlike last year where I got covered in snow a day after winterizing, due to waiting until I absolutely had no grass clipping in my bag. I'lll see how it looks in the spring. I don't think I forced any top growth.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by gwlbe » November 11th, 2018, 7:33 am

1st Frost was 9/30, top growth has stopped in most locations, snow forecasted for Tuesday, one more mulch mow, and I’m dropping 75 lbs of urea tomorrow. I checked my logs and sure as shoot, Veterans Day to thanksgiving appear to be the window here in CeMe.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by JHazzardB » November 12th, 2018, 11:06 am

Does snow count as first frost? Asking for a friend.... ;)

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » November 12th, 2018, 12:26 pm

The ACTUAL first frost date means nothing. Frost means nothing, the AVERAGE first frost date is nothing but an indication to guide you as to when you should ease off on the Urea, as the likelihood of the natural slowdown of the grass should begin around that time. You could have an actual frost before or after that time, but that doesn't mean anything - and an early actual frost doesn't mean the grass will stop sooner. Bet on the average date as the best indicator.

Unless a snow is going to be heavy enough to remain in place for the rest of the season, it also means nothing. The lawn will not stop if it is active and gets a couple of inches of snow for a day or two...

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by rucraz2 » November 13th, 2018, 10:44 am

ronfitch wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 6:07 pm
rucraz2 wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 10:01 am
Still slowly growing here in Mn. I mulched up leaves yesterday and was still cutting grass. 5 days between mows.
Guessing I am north of you (I am just east of St. Paul).

I mowed on Thursday the 1st and took .5" off for the most part. Some spots with less, but no spots were without clippings. If weather holds, will mow again this weekend.
Are you around woodbury?
I haven't done much of anything as we have snow cover. I put up a separate post of snow cover now and wondering what to do?


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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Chris LI » November 13th, 2018, 7:53 pm

rucraz2 wrote:
November 13th, 2018, 10:44 am

I haven't done much of anything as we have snow cover. I put up a separate post of snow cover now and wondering what to do?
What is your average first frost date? If your weather pattern changes and you get enough of a warm up within the proper time window, to melt the snow cover, you might be able to drop your winterizer (about 4-5 weeks after avg 1st frost).

Keep an eye on soil temps. If they are consistently between 33* and 40*, you should be able to drop your winterizer and water it in (top growths stops at a soil temp of 40*). Hopefully, you will get enough of a melt, to put the bag on the mower to determine if any clippings are being picked up or not, to confirm if top growth has stopped (pause is over). If you're still dealing with the leaves, you can raise your mower up a notch for leaf mulching, and then back down to its regular position (to put the bag on) to determine if there is any clipping yield.

If you get a late, anemic melt, you might miss your window to winterize. Don't apply any fertilizer to frozen ground.

In a nutshell, keep an eye on what the lawn is telling you, and go for it, if you have the opportunity.

I copied a portion of the soil temp chart for cool season grasses for your reference:

Andy, please correct me if I misstated or misinterpreted the proper procedure/info.

Cool Season Grasses
90F Shoot growth ceases.
77F Root growth ceases.
70F Maximum temperature for root growth of any consequence.
70F Time to plant grasses in late summer.
60-75F Optimum temperature for shoot growth.
50-65F Optimum temperature for root growth.
40F Shoot growth ceases.
33F Root growth ceases.
20F Low temperature kill possible if temperature subsequently drops
rapidly below 20F

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » November 13th, 2018, 11:07 pm

Andy, please correct me if I misstated or misinterpreted the proper procedure/info.
I believe in confirmation by looking at the clippings, not soil temps. Your method is probably just fine, but I still verify by sight.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by rucraz2 » November 14th, 2018, 10:33 am

Im not a firm believer in soil temps myself. I'll figure it out but more or less pondering what the weather is going to do and how to get things done accordingly.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by gwlbe » November 14th, 2018, 6:52 pm

I might of been late to the gig. 5-7 inches of snow predicted for the 16th. I dropped my final app Monday, with a nice rain following. With temps only in the 30s next week I’m concerned root growth may cease. Today’s high was 20. I assume root growth is not contingent on sunlight.

Crying wont help, praying wont do you no good.

A year ago it was in the 60s.

As Andy recommends eyes over data..

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by legacy2000 » November 14th, 2018, 8:57 pm

Anyone in central Connecticut dropping their final app tomorrow before it snows Thursday night and rains Friday? Temps dropping into the 20s at night but above 35-40 during the day next week.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Dargin » November 14th, 2018, 9:13 pm

We're about 32 days past our first frost in Worcester Massachusetts. Grass is still growing here, very slowly, but it's growing. My last app of nitrogen was via Milo on 10/1 (maybe late for slow release, but it happened). Might have a couple inches of snow here, but it shouldn't last. Standing by with urea. Plan to test/cut every 4 days until I see no clippings. Then wait about 5 days, double check that all growth has definitely stopped, then drop the urea. Kinda concerned that the soil might be frozen when the time comes. I never paid attention to that before, so not sure what to expect.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » November 14th, 2018, 10:19 pm

legacy2000 wrote:
November 14th, 2018, 8:57 pm
Anyone in central Connecticut dropping their final app tomorrow before it snows Thursday night and rains Friday? Temps dropping into the 20s at night but above 35-40 during the day next week.
I am not. Too early for my lawn. I'm also not quite central. A bit South.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by CVette » November 15th, 2018, 8:49 am

Dargin wrote:
November 14th, 2018, 9:13 pm
Standing by with urea. Plan to test/cut every 4 days until I see no clippings. Then wait about 5 days, double check that all growth has definitely stopped, then drop the urea. Kinda concerned that the soil might be frozen when the time comes. I never paid attention to that before, so not sure what to expect.
Same here...not sure if I should drop today before 5+" of snow falls or take the chance that it'll be too late by the time the snow clears.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Dargin » November 15th, 2018, 10:51 am

I'm gonna wait. Growth is growth so I dont think I have a choice. I could be misunderstanding things (anyone please correct me if I'm wrong) but I thought putting down the urea early could cause more harm than potentially missing the final dose altogether, if the weather leaves no option. Make sense?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » November 15th, 2018, 11:03 am

That's my plan too.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » November 15th, 2018, 2:55 pm

CVette wrote:
November 15th, 2018, 8:49 am
Same here...not sure if I should drop today before 5+" of snow falls or take the chance that it'll be too late by the time the snow clears.
2 to 9 inches is being predicted here. I last mulched mowed about 4 days ago. I am not concerned about missing my opportunity to fertilize, or mulch mow a few more times, on the majority of the yard...it will melt. You are talking about a guy who did his first mow the end of Feb. Last year. The snow will not stop me from winterizing. I will not skip my winterizer. And I will not do it prematurely.

Question for those doung it today before snow...are you walking and using the spreader all over frozen grass, or is it warmer where you? It's 30 here, and I would think the grass would be damaged if you did that under those conditions. Another reason to wait, imho...

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » November 15th, 2018, 3:04 pm

andy10917 wrote:
November 13th, 2018, 11:07 pm
Andy, please correct me if I misstated or misinterpreted the proper procedure/info.
I believe in confirmation by looking at the clippings, not soil temps. Your method is probably just fine, but I still verify by sight.
A few of us got into a disagreement last year on this topic. I have not measured soil temps yet, but will start, just like last year. I believe in it, but don't believe in relying on it alone. But it does give more info that I find useful...even just pushing the probe into the soil tells me something. My personal opinion.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Rp9110 » December 14th, 2018, 1:10 pm

Any harm in dropping my final winterizer Urea 46-0-0 application at 2:00 p.m. with rain coming in at at 8:00 - or 9:00 p.m.?

Temps are in the high 40's and I do not have irrigation to water it in immediately

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » December 15th, 2018, 1:36 am

Rp9110 wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 1:10 pm
Any harm in dropping my final winterizer Urea 46-0-0 application at 2:00 p.m. with rain coming in at at 8:00 - or 9:00 p.m.?

Temps are in the high 40's and I do not have irrigation to water it in immediately
That's only 6 hours...excellent timing!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » December 15th, 2018, 1:41 am

We Winterized my aunt and uncle's lawn today. Zone 7a. Soil still not yet frozen, but getting close. Last week would have been ideal, but there were still leaves on the ground at that point so we had to wait. Thankfully we got it done at the last second. Rain is possible tonight, but a definite tomorrow night.

In my own yard (Zone 6b) the window for Winterizing is now closed due to frozen ground, except for in the front, which is still not frozen. My neighbor dropped his almost a week ago and will likely just barely sneak in under the wire with the impending rain forecasted. His yard was 1 to 2 degrees warmer for whatever reason.

Tough year for timing the Winterizer!

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