Fall Nitrogen Regimens

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Oldschool » July 31st, 2017, 8:02 pm

I get it...you answered my question though. It cools off quite a bit at night. Therefore I shall fertilize!

Thanks Andy

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierDaddy » August 1st, 2017, 2:57 pm

Come on Andy, EVERYone knows the time for optimal temp check is 03:07:30....

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 10th, 2017, 10:11 pm

The 2017 Updates of this thread have started -- that means that it's time to get your Fall Urea stocks ready to go!

Do you have your's in stock yet?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » August 10th, 2017, 10:22 pm

I need a few more bags but I'm primed. I put down about half a pound per K today with some Potassium and watered it in.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by PSU4ME » August 11th, 2017, 7:03 am

I picked up 6 bags, $21.99 each from the local agway


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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by bigterp » August 11th, 2017, 7:58 am

A few questions before I tackle a fall nitrogen regimen for the first time. I'm planning on doing the standard approach using coated Urea. From the original post I should be shooting for 1lb/K of N, which would be about 2lb/K of coated urea. Should I be applying the entire 2lb/K of urea at the same time, and then repeat again every 4 weeks or so? Or would it be better to do 1lb/K of coated urea every 2 weeks? Also, since I'm going with the standard approach, should I still be using regular urea as a winterizer? Or will the 1lb/K of N in the form of coated urea be sufficient for my final application later this fall? Coated urea does not need to be watered in like regular urea, correct?

I also will be doing some seeding in a few new areas after some tree removal and a bit of overseeding for a few thin areas this weekend. Planning to seed with a bit of starter fertilizer. How long should I wait before applying urea to these areas, if at all? I plan to start my fall nitrogen regime around labor day. So if I do some seeding this weekend that will be 3 weeks before my nitrogen regimen begins.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 11th, 2017, 8:18 am

Spreading out coated urea apps doesn't make much sense - you're paying extra money (as much as 3X) for the Nitrogen to be released over time, and then you're doing the spreading it over time too. Repeating it every 4 weeks (assuming that's the release period of the slow-release) is better, but check the release period. Slow-release is not a great idea for the final app - the period where the last release is taken to the roots is relatively short.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by bigterp » August 11th, 2017, 8:36 am

andy10917 wrote:
August 11th, 2017, 8:18 am
Spreading out coated urea apps doesn't make much sense - you're paying extra money (as much as 3X) for the Nitrogen to be released over time, and then you're doing the spreading it over time too. Repeating it every 4 weeks (assuming that's the release period of the slow-release) is better, but check the release period. Slow-release is not a great idea for the final app - the period where the last release is taken to the roots is relatively short.
Thanks Andy!! Just to make sure I'm clear, you're recommending dropping coated urea (based on the release period) to achieve the 1lb/K of N per month. So if the release period is 4 weeks, then it would be 2lb/K of slow release every 4 weeks. If the release period is 2 weeks then I should adjust it to 1lb/K of slow release every 2 weeks which would get me the 1lb/K of N per month. I would continue this regimen until about the first frost (the pause). Then the final application should be regular urea at the rate of 2lb/K as a winterizer.

I answered my own question regarding the N application to new seedings by digging further through this thread.

Thanks again for the continued responses to my numerous questions. I'm FINALLY getting my head wrapped around all of this.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 11th, 2017, 8:51 am

If you're asking what I really recommend, then the answer is that I don't really recommend coated urea -- it's expensive and not any better. The 1 lb/K rate of fast-release (0.5 lb/k Nitrogen) per week is low enough to be completely safe (in order to screw it up, you must make the same error in the same exact spot two weeks in a row!).

If you want to stick with the coated stuff, I can't be too specific because I don't know the release period and don't know the recommended app rate. You have to read and figure it out yourself.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by bigterp » August 11th, 2017, 8:58 am

andy10917 wrote:
August 11th, 2017, 8:51 am
If you're asking what I really recommend, then the answer is that I don't really recommend coated urea -- it's expensive and not any better. The 1 lb/K rate of fast-release (0.5 l/k Nitrogen) per week is low enough to be completely safe (in order to screw it up, you must make the same error in the same exact spot two weeks in a row!).

If you want to stick with the coated stuff, I can't be too specific because I don't know the release period and don't know the recommended app rate. You have to read and figure it out yourself.
Thanks. Makes sense. I was leaning towards the coated for convenience. Less applications and no watering in. I do not have any irrigation other then a hose end sprinkler and I'm treating a fairly large lawn around 20K. And also because of the burn risk, but you cleared that up for me. Locally I can get coated urea for $11.10/40# bag and regular urea for $8.75/40#bag. Not a huge price difference for the amount I'll need to use.

Thanks again. I have a bit of time to decide what I want to do, but you've helped clear things up for me. I appreciate that.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 11th, 2017, 9:04 am

Wow - at $11.10 for coated it might make some sense, but I don't know the release period still. I have an acre (sloped) and seeing a 65-year old, 6' 6" 250-lb guy running around applying fast-release Urea weekly is probably an eye-roller for the folks in the area, but I do it weekly and it works well.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by bigterp » August 11th, 2017, 9:28 am

andy10917 wrote:
August 11th, 2017, 9:04 am
Wow - at $11.10 for coated it might make some sense, but I don't know the release period still. I have an acre (sloped) and seeing a 65-year old, 6' 6" 250-lb guy running around applying fast-release Urea weekly is probably an eye-roller for the folks in the area, but I do it weekly and it works well.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well. I'll check out the release period on the bag of the coated and compare it to applying regular urea and make a decision. I have a Brinly tow behind broadcast spreader that I'll need to get the applications rates figured out on before I start applying, so I won't need to be lugging around the yard like you. But me being 6'8" and 240-lb, I still look rather silly sitting on my lawn tractor. It looks like a toy with me on it. HA!!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 20th, 2017, 9:35 am

I completed the updates to the first posting of this thread for 2017. That's the critical reading item.

As noted elsewhere, the signs that the time for the Fall Nitrogen Regimens are coming are coming fast-and-furious now, where I live (Lower Hudson Valley of NY). If your lawn has gone dormant or you have been in a no-fertilization regimen for July/August, it's time to gently announce that the nap is over.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by PSU4ME » August 20th, 2017, 9:59 am

End of next week it looks like temps will have highs in the upper 70's, a good sign hopefully

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 20th, 2017, 10:16 am

As the thread points out, air temperatures are a poor indicator, and will frustrate you by bouncing around. The best air temperature indicator (if you insist on using them) are when the evening temperatures start having an increasingly bigger gap from the daytime temperatures. Here, that has already happened, and the resulting tree frog/katydid/Cricket sounds of late Summer are sure and loud.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by ken-n-nancy » August 20th, 2017, 2:32 pm

andy10917 wrote:
August 20th, 2017, 10:16 am
... air temperatures are a poor indicator...
+1. Even if temperatures are staying warm due to weather patterns or favorable winds, the shorter days and lower height of the sun in the sky continue their relentless progression, resulting in less and less effective sunlight for growing!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by PSU4ME » August 20th, 2017, 3:24 pm

I'm not planning to use the air temp, was just saying that highs are looking to be in the 70s vs 80s so things are starting to go more fall-ish.

Baystate went down last weekend and the shed has 8 bags of urea, bring it on!

What is the optimal HOC for fall? I'm thinking 3" on my kbg and then 2.5" on last cut. She's at 4" now

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 20th, 2017, 3:39 pm

What is the optimal HOC for fall?
Where it doesn't mat down, and isn't snagging and tangling leaves.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by PSU4ME » August 20th, 2017, 7:34 pm

Thanks. How soon after urea being spread does it need to be watered in?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Billybob » August 20th, 2017, 7:45 pm

I would water in urea right after application. It could burn your lawn if you wait too long. Especially on a hot day.

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