Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by jskierko » September 1st, 2019, 8:13 pm

Divvied up 150 lbs of urea by week and section of yard today. Excited for my first year going through the program :good:

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by mobiledynamics » September 24th, 2019, 9:12 am

For areas where new green babies, does one skip the nitrogen regime completely and or just do one app on the last cut ?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 24th, 2019, 7:02 pm

It depends upon your experience level - I've had the lawn look like sod at Day 60, and I've seen others struggle. You have to know when to hold em, and when to fold em.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Cole » October 25th, 2019, 10:37 am

Any advice for beating the snow with the last fertilizer app? My grass is still growing just slightly, its very near done, but I'm not sure it has completely stopped. We have 2 to 4 inches of snow expected up here on Tuesday. How does one work around the weather without getting the winterizer down too early or do I just go for it this weekend and take what nature is giving me?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by TimmyG » October 25th, 2019, 2:46 pm

Do you not expect to see bare ground again after this modest snowfall? I know I don't flinch just because it snows in October or November. I'll see my grass again and will apply the winterizer when the grass has stopped growing. Heck, I usually find myself mowing after snow every year.


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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Cole » October 25th, 2019, 5:03 pm

It's hard to say. Most likely yes, but that is not always the case. We probably won't see the 2 to 4 they are predicting, but if we get 4, it's likely i won't see grass again until spring.

I guess the question then becomes, am i better off doing it a little early or not at all. I could wait and maybe get lucky and have another chance, but it's not guaranteed.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » October 26th, 2019, 10:58 pm

Cant split hairs. I've never had perfect timing.

A few days ago I put down urea, then applied FAS and triclopyr. Grass definitely growing and no frost yet but it's coming. On the later side of the pause here traditionally but I think the turf needed it and little risk of frost killing new growth rn

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 27th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Frost typically doesn't damage new growth. It is damaged as the cold, dry winds of January take their toll, when the tender growth didn't get time to harden before growth stopped. Once again, the average first frost date is NOT because frost will damage anything - it is just the best date to use for an leading indicator of growth stoppage.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 29th, 2020, 8:01 am

Final edits of the initial posting have been made for the Fall 2020 season.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by ken-n-nancy » August 29th, 2020, 9:20 am

Thanks, Andy, for making the updates to the initial posting. Even though I've read this posting every year since starting to read this site six years ago, it always bears re-reading as a reminder!

I think this is one of the best "articles" on the site. Thanks for maintaining it over all these years. One thing I did notice is a very minor typo that I recall seeing in prior years, but always forget to mention. In the paragraph for "Mid-Fall", the third sentence, "When the first-frost occurs in your area, you want let the grass slow down..." the word "to" is missing. It should read "... you want to let the grass..."

Here in Southern New Hampshire, we made our "wake up" application of organics (Bay State Fertilizer) back on August 17th. Growth is starting to take off again, and the lawn seems ready for the first of the "aggressive" treatments, which is hopefully going down tomorrow after occasional rain passes through most of the day, with potential downpours tonight. I'm staying away from the urea application until after any heavy rain passes through, to avoid any runoff from heavy rain and instead rely upon gentle irrigation to get the urea into the soil.

Thanks again, Andy!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 29th, 2020, 9:31 am

Typo corrected.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Billyd13 » August 31st, 2020, 1:57 pm

Just applied the first Urea application for the fall. No rain is expected how much irrigation do I need to apply?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by MorpheusPA » August 31st, 2020, 5:13 pm

None, technically. If rainfall is expected within a week, you'll be absolutely fine.

If you have an extraordinarily high pH, you might potentially lose some nitrogen to the atmosphere if the urea gets damp from dew. But the amount is unlikely to be that much over seven days in late August/early September (you don't spec your exact locale, so I can't look it up).

If it doesn't rain, you'll probably irrigate within that span and that's fine. Even if you don't, it'll continue to wait. Maximum urea losses under even pretty high pH levels are about 15% tops in relatively long time amounts.

If you wish to irrigate? Apply at least 1/4" to thoroughly wash in the urea and keep it from outgassing to the atmosphere. Anything up to 1" of water is just fine.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by northeastlawn » August 31st, 2020, 7:07 pm

[quote=MorpheusPA post_id=343052 time=1598908399 user_id=112]
None, technically. If rainfall is expected within a week, you'll be absolutely fine.

If you have an extraordinarily high pH, you might potentially lose some nitrogen to the atmosphere if the urea gets damp from dew. But the amount is unlikely to be that much over seven days in late August/early September (you don't spec your exact locale, so I can't look it up).

If it doesn't rain, you'll probably irrigate within that span and that's fine. Even if you don't, it'll continue to wait. Maximum urea losses under even pretty high pH levels are about 15% tops in relatively long time amounts.

If you wish to irrigate? Apply at least 1/4" to thoroughly wash in the urea and keep it from outgassing to the atmosphere. Anything up to 1" of water is just fine.
[/quote]

Thanks, great info!

I time my apps when I plan to water anyway, but its nice to know what would happened if I couldn't water it in right away.

I was always worried the urea would burn the lawn if it just sat there. I have seen what it does to paper and cardboard containers when it sits over time.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by MorpheusPA » August 31st, 2020, 7:55 pm

northeastlawn wrote:
August 31st, 2020, 7:07 pm
I was always worried the urea would burn the lawn if it just sat there. I have seen what it does to paper and cardboard containers when it sits over time.
Ha! Yeah, it's not friendly to cardboard in the slightest, although as long as it's dry, I prefer to buy in paper bags where I can. My local place sells in triple-bagged paper, which is usually fine.

Applied to dry lawn, it should be fine for the duration. Urea "melts" and spreads across the soil a bit as it absorbs water from the air (it's hygroscopic, meaning it sucks water out of the air. Amusingly, it's also endothermic, so the temperature of the substance drops when it does this, although that doesn't really apply here).

I just used a urea-based app (in part, along with some sulfur-coated urea), and did it on dry lawn. I have no worries it'll burn and it rains when it rains (hopefully tonight or tomorrow, but whenever). My pH is around 6.2 or so, so losses to the air at 80 degrees maximum aren't going to be very high no matter how long it goes.

Don't apply to damp lawn and you should be just fine. If you do, water it off the blades immediately and that takes care of the problem. Whether or not you continue to water it in is your choice, or you can stop and wait for rainfall--the previous rules I gave apply at that point if you didn't water it into the soil fully.

Fun fact--urea isn't instantaneous (ammonium nitrate is instantaneous). Urea is processed by bacteria that excrete urease, which is found in abundance in most soils. Over the course of two days or so (give or take a lot, at reasonable soil temperatures above freezing), urea processes into nitrogen available to the lawn.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » August 31st, 2020, 9:48 pm

I take a more conservative approach, for two reasons. Yes, I have seen (only once) Urea cause some burn when dew was present most mornings - but that's not the main reason. The main reason is to get it to working soon after application - when I'm applying it on Sunday and plan to do weekly apps, I don't want it laying on the soil doing nothing until Thursday or Friday - I want the apps to be active one week apart. If you let it sit there for days, it ain't doing its job.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by MorpheusPA » August 31st, 2020, 10:40 pm

Andy is, clearly, a little less lazy than I am. :-) And also applies more often. The next drop will be in 2 1/2 weeks or so, Milorganite, to release in early October. After that, it's winterizer in November, Vigoro Super Green 35-0-5.

I'll hand-feed the tiny remaining dormant areas, but those are seriously <25 square feet. Timing that during or just before rainfall is no trick and involves a small handful of fertilizer.

In this month's case, I'm mixing urea nitrogen, sulfur-coated urea (2 month feeding), and Milorganite all in a huge mass as Vigoro 29-0-3 and Milo in two applications. I'm content to await rainfall.

But nothing's saying you can't irrigate instantly if you want to. Both approaches work just fine.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by reverseration » September 1st, 2020, 3:26 pm

Quick question: I'm looking at the aggressive approach to really push my new lawn (spring seeding) for the fall and next year. My issue is that both my front and back yards are pretty tiny. It's less than 1000sqft total (in fact the front is only 350sqft) so if my math is right I'm looking at applying only .35lbs/.65lbs of urea which may get a bit...tricky...as they're such small amounts. Does anyone have any suggestions on something I can mix in to beef up the application on a weekly basis? I've got a hand spreader and I'm pretty careful but the margin of error with those small amounts is pretty slim. Any ideas are appreciated.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Masbustelo » September 1st, 2020, 8:27 pm

Weigh the urea out in grams on a digital kitchen scale, divided in two portions, one for your front, one for your rear. The hand spreader can be adjusted to easily handle this amount. Once you do it once or twice it's a piece of cake. I had the same questions earlier this year. You could probably make two lines inside the spreader with a sharpie the first time and then you wouldn't need to use the scale any more.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 1st, 2020, 9:01 pm

You can also cut the amount of Urea a little and mix it (well !!!) into some Milo/BSF/etc. Then apply it - works well.

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