Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » October 10th, 2017, 9:14 pm

Andy...you've told me in the past that I should only need 3-4 weeks after the pause starts for the grass to stop growing. However, consistently every year, it's more like 6-8 weeks from the average first frost date until growth stops. I've tried to find another indicator to go by...but haven't had success...

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 10th, 2017, 9:44 pm

It is what it is. I can only write about what I see. Where I live (the Hudson Highlands of NY), the first frost is around 10/17, and the grass stops growing around 11/12. I've written that the period between first frost and growth cessation is longer where the climate is modified by large bodies of water.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » October 10th, 2017, 10:23 pm

Interesting. No really large bodies of nearby...there are some very small ponds less than a mile away, and a moderate sized one maybe a mile and a half away. But, we are in a valley, with a small mountain sevreral miles to the West. Here, we have roughly the same first frost as you, but my grass never stops growing before Thanksgiving...at the earliest. It does get really slow for a few weeks, though. In theory, that should give me a couple weeks more wiggle room with Nitrogen in mid to late October I guess.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by gave20 » October 11th, 2017, 4:10 pm

I see the same thing, frost mid Oct. final mow Christmas. I blame it on the warm ups we have around thanksgiving; like clockwork it will be mid-50's to 65 for a few weeks and push the grass.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » October 11th, 2017, 9:03 pm

gave20 wrote:
October 11th, 2017, 4:10 pm
I see the same thing, frost mid Oct. final mow Christmas. I blame it on the warm ups we have around thanksgiving; like clockwork it will be mid-50's to 65 for a few weeks and push the grass.
Yeah. There was one year that was crazy...final mow on some areas was after Christmas.

Do you still use the average first frost date as your cutoff for Nitrogen?

I saw the supposed average Fall leaf color peak dates, and the average first frost date was right in the middle of that range. I wonder if that's the case in other areas, too.


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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » October 12th, 2017, 11:14 am

Every situation is so different. The members on the north side of Indy have an earlier average first frost date by about a week, compared to where I live on the south side.

I'm still dialing in my urea application on the area I have. It needs more Nitrogen. I inevitably go over it about 1 1/2 times, so I purposefully go light so that the areas I hit twice don't get too much. I really need professional spreading equipment, but I'm out of garage space!!!!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Leifcat1 » October 12th, 2017, 12:37 pm

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
October 12th, 2017, 11:14 am
Every situation is so different. The members on the north side of Indy have an earlier average first frost date by about a week, compared to where I live on the south side.

I'm still dialing in my urea application on the area I have. It needs more Nitrogen. I inevitably go over it about 1 1/2 times, so I purposefully go light so that the areas I hit twice don't get too much. I really need professional spreading equipment, but I'm out of garage space!!!!
I also needed a better method of applying my weekly apps. I recently made the investment into the Earthway Flex Select Spreader (Model F80 PD). It comes with a standard output tray, but for an additional $100 you can purchase a low-output tray that’s designed for spreading small amounts of fertilizer/grass seed. The low output tray has vastly improved my urea apps. I’m not over-applying as much as I did in the past. The spreader was pricey but should last for decades.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Marinegrunt » October 12th, 2017, 1:23 pm

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
October 12th, 2017, 11:14 am
I really need professional spreading equipment, but I'm out of garage space!!!!
Hmmm.... That sounds like the building of a dedicated garage may be in the future. I can see it now. The inside will be stocked so well it will look similar to the equipment/supply room of a professional golf course.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » October 12th, 2017, 2:07 pm

Marinegrunt wrote:
October 12th, 2017, 1:23 pm
HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
October 12th, 2017, 11:14 am
I really need professional spreading equipment, but I'm out of garage space!!!!
Hmmm.... That sounds like the building of a dedicated garage may be in the future. I can see it now. The inside will be stocked so well it will look similar to the equipment/supply room of a professional golf course.
:wave: :D

The largest non-permit structure in Indianapolis is a 10X12 structure, which won't hold it all, so it's not a small project AT ALL..... :sorry:

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 12th, 2017, 9:46 pm

Sounds like ATY Overcomplication Syndrome is gaining a foothold.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by TimmyG » October 13th, 2017, 10:27 am

^Yeah. The Scott's Wizz Spreader has been great for urea apps, on 1/2+ acre no less. Sure beats whippin' out the Earthway 2070 for only 20–50 lbs of urea. Also easier to move fast and get 'er done.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » October 13th, 2017, 11:16 am

By professional spreading equipment, I mean spreading equipment that can apply more than 80 lbs of material at a time :D Time is the resource I have the least of :)

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by rydaddy » October 13th, 2017, 12:44 pm

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
October 13th, 2017, 11:16 am
By professional spreading equipment, I mean spreading equipment that can apply more than 80 lbs of material at a time :D Time is the resource I have the least of :)
One of the most accurate, if not THE most accurate statement I have read on the internet. Ever.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » October 13th, 2017, 1:42 pm

Honestly, I need to do a fall clean out and get rid of crap.

You know I'm a lawn nut when I park my SUV outside so I can keep my lawn crapp indoors!!!!!!!

I really would like to have one of those driveable spreader / sprayers that can carry a big load with nice, fat turf tires on it. After I spread with my current cheap-azz spreader, I have tiny, narrow wheel lines all over for a week from the pressure. Also, I use a tow spreader, so I can't see precisely where the prill or spray go, and I can't turn as tight a corner.

Maybe not a big deal for others, but for me it's something I'd really like in the future - a dedicated spreader / sprayer machine - less hook up / prep time, more accurate applications, probably even drives faster, better turf tires so it doesn't leave marks.

A fella can dream, eh?!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » October 13th, 2017, 7:37 pm

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
October 13th, 2017, 1:42 pm
I really would like to have one of those driveable spreader / sprayers that can carry a big load with nice, fat turf tires on it.

You need a Permagreen or an LT Rich Z Spray.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by JohnP » October 13th, 2017, 8:58 pm

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
October 13th, 2017, 1:42 pm
Honestly, I need to do a fall clean out and get rid of crap.

You know I'm a lawn nut when I park my SUV outside so I can keep my lawn crapp indoors!!!!!!
We have a one stall garage and two vehicles. It's big enough to park our Pilot in with a little room in the sides for shelving and toolboxes. Maybe the mower if it's folded up. Wife is being very patient with my lawn mess in there.

Goals man. Goals. Spreaders or just a clean garage...goals.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 13th, 2017, 9:13 pm

I think we've gone way off-topic, guys. Either take this to a new thread or let's get it back on-topic please...

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » October 14th, 2017, 8:29 am

Last app for me today or tomorrow and we are done until winterized

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » October 16th, 2017, 7:39 pm

Wow...if I use the Dave's garden calculator, it gives me October 5th in the 50% chance, 32F column. That is definitely not the average first frost for our area...and indeed, other online calculators that use a data station that's much closer to me give me October 14th-18th. I've used them all, and read every article I can, pertaining to average first frost in my area, to determine that! Now I know why I was so confused about it for years...

But using that October 5th date...just for kicks...I'd be "pausing" waaay too early (creating an 7-10 week pause), and missing out on half of the Nitrogen apps for the Fall! I would probably only get two apps in, max if I used that Oct. 5th date, because it's usually too hot here through most of September for aggressive N apps.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by northeastlawn » October 17th, 2017, 7:40 am

I have been only paying attention to these things for the last two years, but September in S.E. Mass is also very hot and dry. I guess you have to use common sense, but for a week or two I held off the fall fertilizer in the front because of the heat and the humidity. It just reminded more of August than September and it didn't seem safe to do it.

I believe we got our first frost last night, right on schedule.

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