Fall Nitrogen Regimens

[skippynj17]

im debating weather or not to put down one last dose of .25 N /k Urea today . we havnt gotten our first frost here in North jersey yet and night time temps arent expected to get into the high 30s for another 10 days. should i or Shouldnt I ??

I've seen Andy say many times to stick to your average first frost date. Trying to play the weather can lead to other issues if something changes. The average first frost is the safest bet. You know how fast a 10 day forecast can change.

Thanks guys, I wont be applying any until the Winterizer late November / december. I have to remember to remain disciplined and stick with program .

[PSU4ME]

I stopped my weekly apps at the average first frost date.......man is it good to only have to cut once a week now - added benefit!!!

Andy - broken sprinkler heads are easy as you stated and i plan to keep my irrigation up until the winterizer. I can actually drain my hard pipe and backflow device pretty easily so if we are looking at a really cold night i may do just that. I have so many extra parts for my irrigation that i swear i could redo a quarter acre if someone asked me!

[sain6815]

Can't find a 46-0-0 will a 34-0-0 suffice?

[andy10917]

34-0-0 is Ammonium Nitrate typically. Yes, it will work - but you'll need about 25% more product to get the same amount of Nitrogen applied. Since it is generally a little more expensive than Urea and more is required, you'll understand why Urea is generally preferred a bit.

[sain6815]

Scored 34-0-0 for $9.50

[ken-n-nancy]

Scored 34-0-0 for $9.50

If that's for a 50-pound bag, you got an awesome price! If a 1-pound bag, then, not so much...

[sain6815]

If that's for a 50-pound bag, you got an awesome price! If a 1-pound bag, then, not so much...

Haha. 50# bag!

[PW405]

I find myself in a bit of a conundrum - we've got a cold front coming through and temps are expected to dip to ~29°this weekend. I started my fall N regimen a bit later while I waited for new seed to sprout, so I've only made 2 N apps so far. "Average" first frost is still two weeks away, with no more freezing temps in the 10 day. I was planning to continue the fall N regimen for at least two more weeks. Think I should continue with my weekly N apps?

[andy10917]

Bet on the average, when in doubt

[Bearded4Glory]

New member here, thank you all very much for all the info. I am in a unique situation out here in California. What would you recommend for me in zip 94062? Based on the frost dates on the site linked in the first post we don't have frost. This has been the most confusing part for me since my timing is going to be so different than everyone else.

I over seeded the majority of my lawn 3 weeks ago and did a full renovation on a smaller portion. I applied Scotts Starter right after seeding and applied a 2nd dose yesterday. I believe I have been over watering as the temps have dropped a bit and that has lead to somewhat lackluster results but I have reduced the watering and am hopeful that I will get a little more germination still. I seeded with a mix of KBG and fine fescue since I have a mix of sun and shade and my lawn is only 1500 SF so I didn't want to try to seed different areas with different seed manually.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[bernstem]

New member here, thank you all very much for all the info. I am in a unique situation out here in California. What would you recommend for me in zip 94062? Based on the frost dates on the site linked in the first post we don't have frost. This has been the most confusing part for me since my timing is going to be so different than everyone else.

I looked up your frost data and it seems your average first is Dec 12 and last is Jan 23. I would be surprised if you see any winter dormancy. The Fall Nitrogen Regimen was developed and is more targeted to locations with a true winter. Given the very short winter, I'm not sure the traditional winterizer techniques apply in your area.

That doesn't really help you in figuring out what the best course of action is, but... if you don't get any answers in this thread, a new one may get you some more directed info.

[Bearded4Glory]

New member here, thank you all very much for all the info. I am in a unique situation out here in California. What would you recommend for me in zip 94062? Based on the frost dates on the site linked in the first post we don't have frost. This has been the most confusing part for me since my timing is going to be so different than everyone else.

I looked up your frost data and it seems your average first is Dec 12 and last is Jan 23. I would be surprised if you see any winter dormancy. The Fall Nitrogen Regimen was developed and is more targeted to locations with a true winter. Given the very short winter, I'm not sure the traditional winterizer techniques apply in your area.

That doesn't really help you in figuring out what the best course of action is, but... if you don't get any answers in this thread, a new one may get you some more directed info.

Thanks for the reply. I may take your advice and start a new thread if this doesn't get any traction by the end of the week.

[73Chall]

No need to wait and, to assist two endeavors (keep Andy’s “Fall-Winter” thread on track and assist you in The Golden State!) it appears “the fruitful end the rainbow” in CA may be the research and info published by the University of California - Riverside (UCR). Google “turf research California” and there is a treasure trove of info, including:http://ipm.ucanr.edu/TOOLS/TURF/MAINTAIN/fertwhen.html which I found by search terms, “turf fall nitrogen application in California”

Hope this helps (I realize it sometimes comes across as flippant to say “search Google” but, that is not my intention; your situation or rather, lack of a true “winter” really is unique (if not enviable)

Best o’ Success!

[ryeguy]

I have some Scott's Green Max I picked up on sale awhile back that I'd like to use to winterize, if possible.

The label:
27% N

• 8.1% ammoniacal N
• 10.4% urea N
• 7.8% other water soluable N
• 0.7% water insoluable N
• (of the above, 6.38% is slowly avaialble N from Methyleneureas)

When calculating my final 1 lb/k app, should I only count the fast release N or should I include the slow release N as well? In other words, should I treat the above like it has 27% N or 20.62% N?

[ryeguy]

Rereading the original post, I'm realizing I shouldn't use Green Max since there should be no slow release N in the soil after first frost. I can't delete it so disregard

[andy10917]

Rereading the original post, I'm realizing I shouldn't use Green Max since there should be no slow release N in the soil after first frost. I can't delete it so disregard

That's not the point. There is a 2-3 week period where the top-growth has stopped but the root-growth hasn't. That means that a slow-release fertilizer won't be a good match, because the root-growth will stop before the 4-8 week period for slow-release to complete the release is completed. Wasteful to both your wallet (it doesn't work) and the environment (it releases and there is nothing there to use it before it leaches away)...

No need to delete.

[Green]

Rereading the original post, I'm realizing I shouldn't use Green Max since there should be no slow release N in the soil after first frost. I can't delete it so disregard

Not so fast. I've been doing this for a few years now, and intentionally bought a bag of Green-Max earlier this year to use as my final winterizer for this year because it spreads well and I got a good deal at Costco (though not quite as good a deal as some of you have gotten on 46-0-0).

It should work fine; it worked fine for me last year, too. I'm basing my Nitrogen amounts on about 22-24% fast release N, give-or-take (I forget the exact calculations I did a while back). Maybe not the best thing for the environment like Andy pointed out...but not the end of the world, either. The Methylene ureas are mostly warm-water soluble or partially-soluble anyway, so it's not as slow release as sulfur coated urea...if we get a warm day and some rain within 2 weeks after application, which is bound to happen, they will probably start dissolving (the methylene ureas).

But keep the Green-Max off concrete. Some people say it stains due to the iron. That iron is going to add a nice greening effect to the grass, though.

[osuturfman]

No problem with Green Max, the slow release N in that product will sit there until next year.

[Leifcat1]

Since Green Max contains potassium, aren't there any concerns of applying potassium-containing fertilizer this late in the season? According to the regimen, excess potassium late in the season has been linked to occurrences of snow mold. This isn't saying that you will get snow mold...but you could increase your chances.

[osuturfman]

At that rate of K (0.07 lb K/M) I would have no worries about increased incidence of snow mold. K apps influencing snow mold were seen as a cumulative effect over the course of a season and not so much as a big slug of K near the end of the season.

That said, snow mold is just about any part of the continental US is a temporary malady and not a disease to lose sleep over.