Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
skippynj17
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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by skippynj17 » October 17th, 2017, 12:57 pm

I got my 2nd weekly urea app down on my KBG renovation yesterday at .25 lb N /k . had first frost or came pretty close to it early this morning. Im done until the winterizer around thanksgiving

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HoosierLawnGnome
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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » October 18th, 2017, 12:18 pm

northeastlawn wrote:
October 17th, 2017, 7:40 am
I have been only paying attention to these things for the last two years, but September in S.E. Mass is also very hot and dry. I guess you have to use common sense, but for a week or two I held off the fall fertilizer in the front because of the heat and the humidity. It just reminded more of August than September and it didn't seem safe to do it.

I believe we got our first frost last night, right on schedule.
We had the hottest day of the year in late September, amid a string of 90 degree temps, with no rainfall for several weeks. I skipped the N during those couple weeks too. Didn't make sense.

I out my last app of N down a few days ago. Time to put the irrigation system to sleep and wait to winterize. Still no frost here yet.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by PSU4ME » October 18th, 2017, 2:46 pm

HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
October 18th, 2017, 12:18 pm
Time to put the irrigation system to sleep and wait to winterize. Still no frost here yet.
I was just thinking about this. I'll likely not water anymore but how do you water in the winterizer? Do you just hope for rain around the right time?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » October 18th, 2017, 11:53 pm

PSU4ME wrote:
October 18th, 2017, 2:46 pm
I was just thinking about this. I'll likely not water anymore but how do you water in the winterizer? Do you just hope for rain around the right time?
Generally, relying on rain, and trying to plan it within a few days of rain. I also have had to water with impact sprinklers at night in the cold. Even on small areas, it's not fun. I'd suggest just letting the rain take care of it for you. Try your best to drop the fertilizer up to 4 days ahead of a soaking rain. But wait until the grass isn't growing.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by HoosierLawnGnome » October 19th, 2017, 9:13 pm

PSU4ME wrote:
October 18th, 2017, 2:46 pm
HoosierLawnGnome wrote:
October 18th, 2017, 12:18 pm
Time to put the irrigation system to sleep and wait to winterize. Still no frost here yet.
I was just thinking about this. I'll likely not water anymore but how do you water in the winterizer? Do you just hope for rain around the right time?
I let the rain do it.


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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 19th, 2017, 10:54 pm

I leave the irrigation system active until the Winterizing app goes down. It was a mistake one year (last year) when a few heads froze/cracked. I worried all winter, and the damage cost me a massive $24 in the Spring and took two hours to replace the damaged heads.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Green » October 19th, 2017, 11:15 pm

With this drought and warm weather in the Northeast, and the overseed project I have going on, there have been a lot of reasons not to be in a rush to get the irrigation shut down earlier than necessary. I'm still plugging away, watering regularly, and not just on the seeded areas. Being able to water in my last early Fall Nitrogen app tomorrow (that's not counting the final winterizer) is a good thing, too.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by kevreh » October 21st, 2017, 8:38 am

With temps still in the 60s and low 70s, and lows at night ranging from high 40s to the 60s, who knows when first frost will come. Going to drop another half pound on N this weekend and some milo mostly for the iron.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by ztrips » October 21st, 2017, 10:26 am

I put down Milorganite at half the bag rate 2 weeks ago. Planning on another spread of something first week in November. I was going to do another shot of M, but after reading some around here I might go with something a bit "hotter" but not too crazy. Nature Safe 8-5-5?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 21st, 2017, 10:31 am

I'm going to assume that you understand the biological processes behind organic fertilization. Keep an eye to the soil temperature - as it falls the processes that make organics work slow and almost stop at about the same pace as the grass itself. While it's a great solution in most months, you have to stop and think about organics now.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by ztrips » October 21st, 2017, 10:36 am

Agreed Andy. I've been a milo user for a few years now, but due to amount of turf I'm dealing with I've only done a mediocre job. Trying to maximize lawn, started this year with more intent. Aiming for good year next year so pumping more N in this fall. I've kicked around using a non-organic last spread this year. Just not sure exactly what yet. I'm a bit hesitant not fully understanding the impact of non-organics on a lawn that has seen nothing but for the last 8 years. Any advice? I'm in Central KY so we should be active a bit longer than up where you are.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 21st, 2017, 10:46 am

Yup. Some of the most ardent organics believers on the site use Urea in the second half of the Fall. Urea is a natural compound, although it is synthesized almost all the time these days (cheaper!). I wrote the Fall Nitrogen Regimens information originally, and it is literally pennies per 0.5 lbs/K application and one last 1 lb/K winterizer app. That will deliver big results in the Spring. The cost benefit at the end of the season for 55K should be substantial.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by ztrips » October 21st, 2017, 8:22 pm

I see you have recommended up to 2#/K of N for last application? Assuming this is via 46-0-0, no issues with burn this late in the year I guess?

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andy10917
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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 21st, 2017, 8:35 pm

No! Sorry, you don't have this down yet - 2 lbs/K of 46-0-0 yields 0.92 lbs/K of Nitrogen. That's safely within the 1 lbs/K limit. Study it - it is quite important to do it in your head.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by ztrips » October 22nd, 2017, 6:54 am

I've got the math, I swear I read a post of yours somewhere that was indicating 2 lbs per 1000 of N from Urea.... Hence my question on burn. I figured 1# was the limit (2# of urea per 1000). I must have miss read it.

Bag rate on Lesco 46-0-0 Urea is 2.17/K. So exactly 1lbs of N per 1000.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 22nd, 2017, 8:29 am

I'm certain that you read that I recommended 2 lbs/K of Urea, yielding (roughly) 1 lb/K of N. I do that calculation in my head gazillions of times.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by skippynj17 » October 22nd, 2017, 10:38 am

im debating weather or not to put down one last dose of .25 N /k Urea today . we havnt gotten our first frost here in North jersey yet and night time temps arent expected to get into the high 30s for another 10 days. should i or Shouldnt I ??

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by JohnP » October 22nd, 2017, 11:45 am

skippynj17 wrote:
October 22nd, 2017, 10:38 am
im debating weather or not to put down one last dose of .25 N /k Urea today . we havnt gotten our first frost here in North jersey yet and night time temps arent expected to get into the high 30s for another 10 days. should i or Shouldnt I ??
I’m not chancing it even with the warmer weather we’ve been having simply because it’s my first year and I’m not experienced enough to handle any negative consequences yet. Our average first frost was 10/16. I haven’t added any Urea since.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Marinegrunt » October 22nd, 2017, 11:59 am

skippynj17 wrote:
October 22nd, 2017, 10:38 am
im debating weather or not to put down one last dose of .25 N /k Urea today . we havnt gotten our first frost here in North jersey yet and night time temps arent expected to get into the high 30s for another 10 days. should i or Shouldnt I ??
I've seen Andy say many times to stick to your average first frost date. Trying to play the weather can lead to other issues if something changes. The average first frost is the safest bet. You know how fast a 10 day forecast can change.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » October 22nd, 2017, 12:30 pm

John's comment is perfect - get the basics down before you start screwing around with a regimen. It's your call, but if it all goes south on you, don't expect that we will be able to bail you out. We put the regimen together with limits and markers for a reason. Get experience first.

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