Fall Nitrogen Regimens

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Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by BoatDr » September 8th, 2014, 10:06 am

jglongisland wrote:The weather is cooling off now, this week would be a good time to get the first drop down.
Or something in a pre-em? Anyone have an idea on how much urea will easily go into how much water ? I deal I small amounts.


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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by jglongisland » September 8th, 2014, 10:08 am

BoatDr wrote:
jglongisland wrote:The weather is cooling off now, this week would be a good time to get the first drop down.
Or something in a pre-em? Anyone have an idea on how much urea will easily go into how much water. I deal I small amounts.


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Just experiment. I would think 1 lb would go into a gallon, haven't tried it.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by fmzip » September 8th, 2014, 10:52 am

kevreh wrote:
fmzip wrote:Can someone suggest some store brand fertilizers to use?

If you are using Milorginate only, what should you be doing this time of year?

Places like John Deere Landscapes, a local farm supply (ie. Tractor Supply, or local garden centers should have straight up N (urea, 46-0-0). Label doesn't matter. If you want a mix of slow release N then local garden centers usually have that in one form or another. Often, HD or Lowes don't have the straight N fert, there's typically some weed control or some form on P or K in them. Not desirable. Also, the sources I mentioned, go from cheapest to most expensive in the order I mentioned them, fwiw.
Thanks.

If I buy 46-0-0 it's 1lb/k weekly, correct? Is that "pure"? It's Ammonium Sulfate that's .5lb weekly?

For those that want to really be aggressive about Fall Nitrogen fertilization, and don't mind the extra application work, pure (fast-release) Urea or Ammonium Sulfate fertilizer can be applied weekly to deliver about 0.5 lbs/K of Nitrogen. For Urea, this is right about 1 lb/K of 46-0-0 Urea.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Hammbone » September 8th, 2014, 12:16 pm

kevreh wrote:
Can you get your hands on straight up N? (urea, 46-0-0). You're pointing out the problem with using the slow release stuff....due to residual release doing multiple applications will make it hard to observe the pause, and to do a last drop of winterizer.
Yes, I can get urea. I've done a late November drop with it for the past few years. I really like the concept of using it for an aggressive early fall regimen, but the reality is that I cannot justify watering my acre lot (physically or financially).
I put down the sulfur coated urea Saturday 9/6 at 0.87 lb N per K. I'm contemplating calling it quits at that, or maybe getting a little more down now.
In the future, am I better off sticking with Milo or SBM in the early fall?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 8th, 2014, 12:49 pm

Thanks for the info, great stuff as always. I'm on long Island (quiogue) so not far from you I believe. I use milo as my normal treatments. I held off on my early fall application because of the heat spell we got last couple weeks of August (just saw on news this morning that first week of Sept was hotter than first week on August). I think I saw some leaf browning yesterday mowing so thought it was time to drop. I will probably drop this weekend but figured I'd check with you since you might have some local insight given you are not far from me.
Ummm, I may be only 75 miles from you as the crow flies, but it's a big difference in climate --- it was 49 degrees here this morning.


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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Pete1313 » September 8th, 2014, 1:24 pm

fmzip wrote: If I buy 46-0-0 it's 1lb/k weekly, correct? Is that "pure"? It's Ammonium Sulfate that's .5lb weekly?

For those that want to really be aggressive about Fall Nitrogen fertilization, and don't mind the extra application work, pure (fast-release) Urea or Ammonium Sulfate fertilizer can be applied weekly to deliver about 0.5 lbs/K of Nitrogen. For Urea, this is right about 1 lb/K of 46-0-0 Urea.
Urea @ 1 lb of product puts down .46 lbs of N per 1000 sq ft (46-0-0)

Ammonium sulfate @ 2.25 lbs of product puts down .4725 lbs of N per 1000 sq ft (21-0-0)

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Adam T » September 9th, 2014, 8:36 am

andy10917 wrote: Late-Fall/Winterizing
...There is a period of about three weeks after top-growth ceases where the roots continue to grow and store nutrients. This is the time to apply the fast-release Urea as a Winterizer. The lawn will store the Nitrogen in the roots for use at Spring Green-Up...

Apply the Winterizer as fast-release Urea or AS, all at once. The application should be 1 lb/K of Nitrogen which is a tiny bit more than 2 lbs/K of 46-0-0 Urea.
If someone were to completely miss the early fall applications, would applying just the Late-Fall/Winterizing fast-release Urea at a rate of 1 lb/K of Nitrogen still be a good thing to do?

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by BoatDrinksQ5 » September 9th, 2014, 8:47 am

yep - it is often stated as the most important fertilizer application :)

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Hammbone » September 9th, 2014, 8:58 am

BoatDrinksQ5 wrote:yep - it is often stated as the most important fertilizer application :)
Agreed! If you do absolutely nothing else to your lawn all year - do this!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by BoatDrinksQ5 » September 9th, 2014, 9:19 am

Oh and some 1/2 dose milo once or twice in the spring/summer :) lol

oh and some spot treating weeds

oh almost forgot and a heavy dose of Dimmension pre-emergent weed preventer in the late spring

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Parsec » September 9th, 2014, 10:38 am

andy10917 wrote:
Early Fall
Where I live, this period starts around Labor Day. Where you are, it is probably the 6-8 weeks prior to average first frost date, but in any year it varies, and the "perking up" is the sign to watch for. If you are on a soil remediation plan, stay with it and make sure that you're getting a full complement of Nitrogen down with any other nutrients specified. If you're not on a soil remediation plan, make a decision about how you're going to add Nitrogen: (1) standard or (2) aggressively. If you are going to do a Standard regimen, begin applying a slow-release (coated) Urea or Ammonium Sulfate fertilizer. Do it so that you deliver about a pound of Nitrogen per 1000 sq ft, per month. The idea is to have the last of the time-release Nitrogen peter out right around the time of average first-frost.
I want to do the standard plan and I'm using Bay State (4-0-3, 50-lb bags, 1 bag per 2500 sf). Isn't 1 lb/k of N equal to only a little more than bag rate? That means I should apply at bag rate twice (at 6 weeks prior to first frost and then again at 3 weeks prior to first first). Am I doing the math right? Seems like a low application rate, and MUCH lower than the weekly milo users.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by BoatDrinksQ5 » September 9th, 2014, 10:54 am

Since a good bit of the N is fast release (40%) - I would be more inclined to apply (for fall) at a bi-weekly rate. and start the pause a hair earlier to let the slow N peter out...

Maybe bump the app rate higher as well - since bag rate would be .8lbs of N / k (by my calc)

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Parsec » September 9th, 2014, 11:25 am

BoatDrinksQ5 wrote:Since a good bit of the N is fast release (40%) - I would be more inclined to apply (for fall) at a bi-weekly rate. and start the pause a hair earlier to let the slow N peter out...

Maybe bump the app rate higher as well - since bag rate would be .8lbs of N / k (by my calc)
If I bump up the app rate a little to 1 lb of N / k and apply biweekly then that would be 2 lb N / k per month. Isn't that too much per Andy's instructions? I already applied 0.8 lbs N/k around 3 weeks ago. My first frost is in 3 weeks so I was wondering if I should just apply another app (0.8-1.0 N / k) this week and be done with fertilization until my urea winterizer.

Seems like the purpose of the early Fall regimen is to feed heavily before the pause, but when I do the math 1 lb N/k per month is only the equivalent of 2 apps of Milo/Bay State over 6-8 weeks at slightly more than bag rate.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by BoatDrinksQ5 » September 9th, 2014, 11:47 am

yep - take my advice worth a grain of milo...:) But your plan seems solid to me for moderate feeding

however - many folks here put the stuff down weekly or bi-weekly and often at doublebag rate...

I however - am not one of them.

The slow release portion (60% of the N) is a different animal - and i believe if every week or two it is getting water soluble N... that slow release will be stored for long term until N is deficient/low in the soil/grass.... its in the bank of sorts (so not really applied N). But yes longer term in needs to be taken into account (along with grass clippings)

So .4lbs of N, in week 1..... .6lbs of N at some point down the road. If another .4 of fast N is applied in week2 (.6slow)... that leaves 1.2lbs of N of slow in the food bank.. (in my kindergarden theory) Andy and other experts have written a better and more accurate e3xplanation elsewhere.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Adam T » September 9th, 2014, 12:53 pm

andy10917 wrote: Early Fall
Where I live, this period starts around Labor Day. Where you are, it is probably the 6-8 weeks prior to average first frost date, but in any year it varies, and the "perking up" is the sign to watch for...

For those that want to really be aggressive... pure (fast-release) Urea or Ammonium Sulfate fertilizer can be applied weekly to deliver about 0.5 lbs/K of Nitrogen. For Urea, this is right about 1 lb/K of 46-0-0 Urea... Make sure to water in any fast-release fertilizer applications - don't rely on "predicted" rainfall... If you have 7 weeks to first frost plus a full-winterizing application, the entire program costs $15.30.

Mid-Fall/"The Pause"
...the average first-frost date... "The Pause". During this period, no Nitrogen applications should be made...

Late-Fall/Winterizing
...The day will come when you mow the lawn and nothing gets cut. When that happens, stoppage has occurred... This is the time to apply the fast-release Urea as a Winterizer... all at once. The application should be 1 lb/K of Nitrogen which is a tiny bit more than 2 lbs/K of 46-0-0 Urea.

Average First-Frost Date by Zip Code
So we end up applying about 4.5 lbs/K of Nitrogen total including early-fall and winterizing applications?

If I am just starting now (in West Michigan) 4 weeks from a likely frost, I should just start weekly 1 lb/K of 46-0-0 Urea applications, and then winterize when the time comes?

I know I shouldn't rely on predicted rainfall, but I'm planning on mowing tonight and then putting down then first Urea application before we get a predicted 1"-2" rainfall storm event tomorrow.


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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by LoneRanger » September 9th, 2014, 9:25 pm

Adam T wrote:...putting down then first Urea application before we get a predicted 1"-2" rainfall storm event tomorrow.
Oh it's coming! It ain't a prediction, it's a fact.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Billybob » September 9th, 2014, 10:53 pm

Send some this way. Like a desert here

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by fmzip » September 9th, 2014, 10:55 pm

I don't see 46-0-0 listed on Tractor Supply or John Deer Landscape??

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 9th, 2014, 11:09 pm

I've never seen it at TSC, but I have bought it (and overpaid seriously!) at JDL.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by fmzip » September 10th, 2014, 8:28 am

So if I can't find it locally, can I stick with Milorginate and if so, at what rate?

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