Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
Fullheadofturf1234
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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Fullheadofturf1234 » September 10th, 2018, 7:45 am

Can I use a balanced fertilizer in place of urea up to 4 lbs /k a month?
Or is that too much p and k.

My lawn did not respond pretty much at all to the first urea application.
I think my soil falls into the group that needs to apply a balanced fertilizer monthly.

Soil test will be done in spring toconfirm and im ok doing it even if its not neccasary.

Just dont want to kill the lawn.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 10th, 2018, 8:12 am

I wouldn't. P and K don't move through the soil as quickly as Nitrogen, nor are they used up quickly like Urea is.

Also, later Fall Potassium has had a couple of studies showing that it leads to Snow Mold and Winter Kill. This is why all of our Remediation Plans recommend the last K goes down in September in the North.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Njlawner » September 11th, 2018, 11:59 am

I live in south jersey and my front yard which is a kbg lawn took a beating this summer and have a lot of patches. I got a soil test done and showed I was deficient in NPK so I plan on putting down a 10-10-10 once the rain subsides this week. I already put down a bag of milo. My question is how long should I wait before putting down urea so that I can get the kbg spreading and filling in the dead spots. Thanks!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 11th, 2018, 12:29 pm

The question cannot be answered with the available information. You have applied Milorganite and plan to add 10-10-10, but we have no idea of the rates and dates of application, nor whether the 10-10-10 is fast-release or slow-release. Those both contain Nitrogen, so throwing more fast-release Nitrogen is pushing the limits maybe too far. You may want to postpone the 10-10-10 to the Spring if you really want to do the Fall Nitrogen Regimen aggressive version.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Njlawner » September 11th, 2018, 12:50 pm

So the 10 10 10 is a fast release and the bag says 40lbs covers 4000sq ft. I have 2500sq ft yard space to cover. So I was planning on putting down 25 lbs in addition to the 1 bag of milo. I would rather start the urea as you suggest. I was just trying to get nutrients up based on the soil test so that I can get the soil in shape going into winter.


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andy10917
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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 11th, 2018, 3:40 pm

Resist the temptation to try to bomb the soil and grass - you'll do more harm than good. Lawn care is a marathon, not a sprint.

We can help you build an annual Plan. All Logan Labs soil tests are interpreted for free, as is a fully-explained Plan - for free (interpretation/plan, not soil test). Unfortunately, we can't do it for other labs, as different labs perform different tests, and there are hundreds of labs - and we are unpaid volunteers. See examples in the Soils and Compost Forum.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 16th, 2018, 9:58 am

OK, so after 6 days of clouds/rain, the sun came out yesterday, and the lawns exploded. I wound up needing to mow for 3 hours to get it all under control - and that was even using the tractor in the Back Yard ("Blueberry" monostand). It was so thick and dark that I couldn't get the clippings into the lawn. I mowed, and mowed, and mowed. The regimen is clearly working very well this year. Front Yard ("Emblem" monostand) is Honda-only, and I think my FitBit recorded something like 15,000 steps yesterday. I'm bushed and so is my wife.

Remains of Florence will bring more rain tomorrow evening through Tuesday. Oh boy!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by seiyafan » September 16th, 2018, 11:10 am

I mowed yesterday and had to keep the summer height which is at 3.25'' to avoid excessive clipping on the lawn, it was definitely overgrown with the fertilizer applied a week ago.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by s3_buell_ » September 16th, 2018, 10:44 pm

I'm two drops into .5N/1000 per week on my KGB and am just barely keeping up with the mowing. The T-Nex is front and center on the bench next to the tank sprayer. I'm interested in advice from those who have hit the N hard and used PGR in the fall before I spray. Do tell.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 17th, 2018, 7:37 am

Good idea! Note #7 of the original first-page posting says that I have insufficient data about PGR use to make recommendations (I don't use PGR's in Fall, and don't post what I don't test). I could use the data from others to address that point.

I'd like to hear more info also about how the Fall Nitrogen Regimens are doing in general for members - at this point you should be seeing obvious changes if you started around September 1st...

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Maizan24 » September 17th, 2018, 10:22 am

This is my first year in the program but the results have become apparent in about the past week or so. Put down my 3rd app yesterday. This is the best my lawn has looked at this time of year in the 4 years since I've been at my house. Usually doesn't start looking like the way it does now until a bit later on in the season. I was very nervous about burning up my lawn because I don't have an irrigation system. I just rely on some oscillating sprinklers but have found the optimal spots to cover my treated area. So far I am sold!

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by darkcrisis » September 17th, 2018, 11:34 am

I started the aggressive nitrogen regime this year on September 1st. I put down my 3rd application yesterday. I've noticed a little change on my TTTF but nothing to really get me excited. The triv is starting to really wake up though. Luckily I have a bunch of Velocity and started those applications as well.

Hopefully when our average daytime temperatures drop out of the upper 80s I will see it really begin to perk up.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by northeastlawn » September 17th, 2018, 12:56 pm

Im also on my 3rd app and have lowered my HOC to 2 1/2".

We had a bit of a mini heat wave in the 90's 1st week of September, and I also did a blanket spray of Tenacity at 4oz. The subsequent spray of 2oz last week was just in the POA areas.

I'd say I'm just now seeing the benefit of 3 urea apps and cooler nights, but the lawn that didn't the Tenacity is starting to do much better. I hadn't realize how much the lawn took a beating over the summer.

Im not sure the program is going to fill in everything I lost of the summer, but just the weekly watering to get the Urea watered in is a big help.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by greenrebellion » September 18th, 2018, 8:02 am

I'm mowing at 3" and my front yard needs mowing every 3 days. I assume that is typical?

Third Urea app went down last weekend and finally I'm starting to become more satisfied with the way my lawn looks after it looked pretty miserable all year. Color continues to darken after every app and some of the summer leaf spot issues seem to be subsiding.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 18th, 2018, 8:16 am

I'm mowing at 3" and my front yard needs mowing every 3 days. I assume that is typical?
If irrigation or rainfall is above average, that's typical. 4-5 days is probably average. I had to mow my lawn for 3 hours on Saturday because we had six straight days of rain, and it was so thick that the clippings wouldn't go into the lawn. I mowed it again yesterday (Monday) because I still had too much material on top, but it was easier after it had dried in the sun. More heavier rain late yesterday and today (remains of Hurricane Florence) mean it will be shaggy by the weekend again, but the results of the program will pay back with a dense, dark lawn all next Spring.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by s3_buell_ » September 23rd, 2018, 1:19 am

T-Nex was sprayed a week ago and then mowed the next day. I can't see any growth at all since. Still on .5lb/k N weekly schedule. I plan to watch thin areas to see if there is any thickening happening instead of vertical growth over the next few weeks. The plan is to use Milorganite until average first frost or a color improvement from the iron, then carefully transition to Urea for the last apps before growth stops.

I'm enjoying the break from mowing the KGB. I've still got two renovations this year so I'm still active but not buried.

Following the advise below on PGR in the fall, I think there will only be one more T-Nex app this season. "Growth stops" might be interesting if I don't get some growth a week or two after the last T-Nex. If I can't really detect it, I'll just use previous years timing experience to stop dropping N, wait through pause, and winterize.
osuturfman wrote:
September 1st, 2014, 7:11 pm
Heading into autumn, you want to time up your FINAL app to occur about 2 weeks before your first frost. The ideal scenario here is that the turf is still under regulation but, within a few days of coming out of regulation. Make the app too late and your "pause" will be like pressing "stop" for a month (trust me, I've done it). Too soon and you'll be hitting the rebound of the PGR with the first frost which in itself isn't a terrible thing but in my experience, not the best scenario. If you're looking for more info on how to time that app up please feel free to ask and I'll show you a rather simple way to calculate it within a reasonable window of time.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by mirak » September 23rd, 2018, 8:45 am

You northern guys start so much earlier! I just overseeded and I won’t even begin applying urea until mid-October. Last urea typically goes down after Thanksgiving.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by andy10917 » September 23rd, 2018, 8:56 am

Areas like Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont had frost warnings last night, and average first frost dates are beginning to happen.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by Oldschool » September 25th, 2018, 9:30 am

First frost arrived this morning. Two weeks beyond average first frost.

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Re: Fall Nitrogen Regimens

Post by llO0DQLE » September 27th, 2018, 9:48 pm

Well, this year seems to be early, at least for me. I paused first week of September. Average first frost for me is Sept 11 - 23 but we've had pretty cool temps starting the first week of September. First frost advisory this year was Sept. 4. I feel like everything is about 2 weeks early this year. We've had a lot of daytime highs around 5 C (41 F) but still get highs around 10 C (50 F). I mowed my south-facing-but-gets-quite-a-bit-of-shade-from-columnar-aspens backyard a couple days ago and hardly cut anything. Previous mowing was about 6 days prior. However, we've had quite a bit of temporary snow and low temps that I'm not confident to call it done at this point. Somehow my front lawn is growing more than the back and I cut about 0.25" - 0.5" after about a 5 day interval from mowing. I used to cut about 1" off every 3 days when the front lawn was growing at it's normal pace before temps started going low.

In 2015 and 2016, I think I winterized around mid-October. Last year, I really waited until I had zero top growth and and it was a bit late in that I got snow cover the next day or 2 which stayed for the winter and I feel like my winterizer did not work. The lawn was slow to wake up this spring and was not very vibrant at all, although that could've been due to other factors as well. However, since I was checking top growth by mowing at 7 day intervals and checking my grass catcher for any clippings, my grass could've very well stopped growing a day or two after the 2nd to last mow, since the 2nd to last mow had very short clippings.

My challenge here is that I seem to always have a very short window from when the grass really stops top growth 100% to when I would get snow cover that will stay for the winter. In order to not miss the boat this year for my winterizer app, I plan to monitor air temps and the 14 day forecast (day time highs consistently around 5 C / 41 F or lower), soil temps at the 4" mark around 4 C / 40 F , growth rate of the grass (2mm or less after 7 days) and visual signs around the yard and around town (trees going bare, neighbors' low input lawns and grass in medians going dormant) to hopefully predict when grass is going to be done with top growth but not wait too long that I get snow cover. I feel like I could be winterizing 10 days from today.

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