PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
maynardGkeynes
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Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

Post by maynardGkeynes » June 14th, 2015, 1:33 pm

StayOffMyLawn wrote:
andy10917 wrote:
as even though PRG is pretty EZ to grow, it's a PITA if you have anything happen to the lawn
How's that?
How's what?
I find the timing and decision making for something as simple as seeding or pre-m tedious, I also find that once you/nature creates a hole of any sort, that hole will stay there forever unless you reseed it.

That's what I am talking about, I'm sure KGB has issues as well, but those are just 2 of mine in regards to PRG.

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The dilemma that PRG and TTTF present for me, one that is not a problem with KBG because it spreads, is what do you do about the lawn in July/Aug, when it starts to look thin. It has been virtually impossible, at least for me, to maintain a moist seedbed without creating a fungus problem for the healthy grass. Even with preventive fungicide applications, the disease pressure is too strong when a lawn is damp 24/7 in 90F heat. I don't need to use pre-ems, so that's not a problem for me. I will say, however, that squirrel divots and the like are very easy to address with PRG, because you can just hand water the local spot without watering the rest of the lawn, so fungus is not an issue.

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oze
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Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

Post by oze » June 14th, 2015, 2:11 pm

I'll put in my 2 cents worth here. I have a No-mix contractor-seed lawn, and am going to overseed the entire thing this August with Regenerating Perennial Ryegrass http://www.barenbrug.com/rpr. Allegedly, it will spread via determinate stolons (rather than rhizomes, as KBG does), and will do so only slowly--see the OSU study here: http://buckeyeturf.osu.edu/index.php?op ... Itemid=170. A full renovation would not fly around here, and I read here and elsewhere that trying to overseed KBG into a turf with mature ryegrass is doomed to failure, so when I came across the RPR, I decided to go for it.

Some observations so far.
    * I had a horrible snow mold issue this spring, which I understand would not be the case with a KBG lawn.
    * I seeded a 1' x 3' area of dog kill with the RPR in April, and it blends in with the rest of my lawn beautifully, if a bit darker
    * I've grown and planted some RPR sod pots, and I was surprised to find out that, within 17 days, the roots are peaking out through the holes in the bottom of the 4" deep pots
    * We've had a very wet spring, and I noticed a fungus distributed throughout the lawn. Incidentally, not a single spot nor hint of disease on the new RPR, either in the newly-seeded areas, nor the planted sod pots. Not making a judgement, but that was a pleasant surprise.

    maynardGkeynes
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by maynardGkeynes » June 23rd, 2015, 9:39 am

    June 23 Update: The PRG is showing moderate stress on about one half of the strip. I'd call that half high B quality, down from A 10 days ago. The other half looks great,, definite A. The better side gets shade around 3. The stressed part bakes until 5pm, Suggests heat stress. However, the problems started after it stayed wet for 3 days, and then grew to 4 inches, which suggests fungus. (It had been almost 2 weeks days since the Immunox treatment, which is long given the disease pressure here). The kBG part of the lawn, admittedly a different exposure, has held its own in this crazy heat. Good showing there. Note, this is not a scientific/controlled test -- just my personal experience with PRG. There are a ton of other factors that are in play. I'm just trying to see how it does on my lawn, and share with folks.

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    kevreh
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by kevreh » August 10th, 2017, 11:47 pm

    Its been a while. How has the PRG held up? Does it thin year to year?

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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by maynardGkeynes » August 11th, 2017, 8:57 am

    kevreh wrote:
    August 10th, 2017, 11:47 pm
    Its been a while. How has the PRG held up? Does it thin year to year?
    When it good it's great, as pretty as any lawn I've ever seen in the DC area, and I mean that. However, areas that get strong afternoon sun pretty much get knocked out once temps go into the mid-90s for any sustained period, like happened this year in my front. So, basically, I have 10 months of really nice lawn, and 8 weeks of patchy brown (June and July). Since my lawn is only 260 square feet, I just renovate and replant every year as soon as we get a break after Aug 1. I replanted 5 days ago, and already I have lots of nice green shoots. By next week, I'll have something that looks uniformly green, and by the end of the month, I expect to have a beautiful lawn again. I did throw in a little KBG this time (maybe 25% by seed count), to hopefully add a little spreading ability. We'll see how that does. Bottom line: For a small, easy/cheap to renovate lawn, I'd say it's an attractive option in metro DC, due to its exceptional beauty. From a pragmatic standpoint, on a larger lawn, TTTF will root much deeper and survive the heat spells better, and is the more practical choice. KBG never did that well for me; the establishment time after a renovation, which I would probably need most years due to heat kill, than becomes a major disadvantage, by extending the "no-lawn" period at least several weeks longer than with PRG.


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    kevreh
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by kevreh » August 11th, 2017, 10:27 am

    So your PRG stays green in the winter?

    I'm considering my options on my KBG backyard. What you said ("that is not a problem with KBG because it spreads, is what do you do about the lawn in July/Aug, when it starts to look thin.") rings true with my lawn. My TTTF front yard does much better, factoring the annual brown patch and grub threat by my driveway.

    I think I'll overseed a TTTF mix into the KBG, but keep PRG in mind. Its good to hear you've had the same problems with KBG, only because I've wondered if it was something I was doing wrong. Of course, its' probably a couple degrees hotter where you are since your in DC (heat island effect).

    Surprised to hear you re-seeded this soon. I've been holding back overseeding, not sure if we're going to see another 90's heat spell again. Probably.

    BTW, one other issue I have with my KBG back lawn is it takes a couple weeks longer to green up than the front lawn. More of an annoyance than anything.

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    turf_toes
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by turf_toes » August 11th, 2017, 10:55 am

    Kevreh,

    I'm curious about what KBG cultivars you have in your back yard.

    I would think winter color would not be an issue in northern Virginia.

    My lawn stays green year round. I would think you being 250 miles south of me it would be easier for you in the Winter.

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    kevreh
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by kevreh » August 11th, 2017, 10:58 am

    Shhh, don't tell anyone but its in my profile, look up and to the left. :)

    I can't say it goes completely tan in the winter, more of a mix of tan and green due to the cultivars and severity of winter.

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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by maynardGkeynes » August 11th, 2017, 11:07 am

    kevrah, in answer to your question, my PRG lawn is green all winter, although there are definitely a few brown blades mixed in. But, it looks pretty decent all things considered.

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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by STL » August 11th, 2017, 11:40 am

    kevreh wrote:
    August 11th, 2017, 10:58 am
    Shhh, don't tell anyone but its in my profile, look up and to the left. :)
    You can't see those side bar details on some mobile devices (even when turned sideways).

    Out of curiosity, how much water do you give your kbg in the summer and do you do the winterizing urea app?

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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by kevreh » August 11th, 2017, 11:52 am

    Ok, thanks. That makes sense (side bar details).

    My rainbird system waters 2x a week. I don't go overkill with it, just enough to keep it from going dormant. One issue is that I have the KBG portion timed the same as the TTTF portion, but it sounds like the KBG likes more water. Maybe thats a factor.

    Yes I do a winterizing app, maybe not as to-the-day as some people try to do. Typically occurs in late Nov or the very beginning of Dec.

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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by maynardGkeynes » August 11th, 2017, 12:43 pm

    kevreh wrote:
    August 11th, 2017, 10:27 am
    ..I think I'll overseed a TTTF mix into the KBG, but keep PRG in mind...
    Just one caveat on the TTTF idea: It looks like you have Midnight and Prosperity KBG in there now, both of which are quite dark green. If uniformity is important, the somewhat lighter, less blue-green TTTF color may not be a totally satisfactory match. PRG and KBG match well, both color and blade thickness, which is why I felt comfortable throwing in some KBG on my recent renov. I thought about TTTF, but decided against it.

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    kevreh
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by kevreh » August 11th, 2017, 3:56 pm

    Good point on color matching Maynard. I'll have to think about the trade of of color matching during the cooler months vs. the prg loosing some color during the hottest months.

    So, curious, is your id related to keynesian economics?

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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by maynardGkeynes » August 11th, 2017, 4:47 pm

    kevreh wrote:
    August 11th, 2017, 3:56 pm
    So, curious, is your id related to keynesian economics?
    Yes, but this Maynard too :D Both were geniuses in my book.

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    andy10917
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by andy10917 » August 11th, 2017, 5:11 pm

    No pix of Adam Smith?

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    bernstem
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by bernstem » August 12th, 2017, 8:33 am

    That south facing hill is going to be hell on any cool season turf - especially if it gets sun from 10:30 on.

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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by maynardGkeynes » August 12th, 2017, 12:34 pm

    The first picture is what my PRG Lawn looked like in April. The second was taken today, 6 days after my renovation. It's mostly PRG, but I did blend in about 25% KBG by seedcount, which probably has not germinated yet. If It had been all PRG, I think it would have filled in a little more by now, but it's definitely moving in the right direction.
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    probasesteal
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by probasesteal » August 14th, 2017, 2:51 pm

    I've often times considered a PRG reno. I did one spring plant PRG and kept it until early August (part shade) in Raleigh, NC. It's a beautiful and tough lawn, holds up much better to dog traffic/play then the TTTF in my opinion.
    We just relocated and if the TTTF/HBG doesn't look good next year, I'm all in on seeding PRG next year.

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    kevreh
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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by kevreh » August 14th, 2017, 3:44 pm

    maynardGkeynes wrote:
    August 12th, 2017, 12:34 pm
    The first picture is what my PRG Lawn looked like in April. The second was taken today, 6 days after my renovation. It's mostly PRG, but I did blend in about 25% KBG by seedcount, which probably has not germinated yet. If It had been all PRG, I think it would have filled in a little more by now, but it's definitely moving in the right direction.
    Image
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    So any pics of how the PRG looked at its' worse in July? Guessing pretty bad if you reno'd it.

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    Re: PRG vs Elite KBG in DC Round One -- PRG

    Post by maynardGkeynes » August 14th, 2017, 11:09 pm

    kevreh wrote:
    August 14th, 2017, 3:44 pm
    ...So any pics of how the PRG looked at its' worse in July? Guessing pretty bad if you reno'd it.
    No pix I can find, but what was there was not worth saving. Mostly brown, with some splotchy green blades here and there.

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