How 'bout it Transition zone?

[weigojmi]

That is a great post and the million dollar question for us transition folks. When is the ideal time and what is the ideal rate to apply N for us? We are the children without a home.

[redcoat]

I personally thought long and hard before this post for that reason, but maybe it will stimulate some discussion.

Thanks for being willing to put your educated guess out there! For those of us who are new to all this, it's very helpful!

Any others willing to do the same?!

[weigojmi]

I think its going to take field (pun intended) research over time. Unfortunately bermuda is phasing me out of relevance quickly so I can't help much with that...

[j4c11]

I'm going to continue applying N at 1#/k through March. Based on last year's data,soil temperatures at 4" (0.1m) remain above the point where root growth ceases. Thus, if I can support root growth, why not. Worst that can happen is I waste some cheap N. If it triggers top growth I can hit it with some PGR, but I don't think that's going to happen.

[redcoat]

PGR?

That's pretty interesting - where did you find that data from? Assuming here in Knightdale (just outside of Raleigh), will be pretty similar.

My reno is looking pretty pale green now - thinking of laying some milo out. I think it very rarely gets down to 33 degrees soil temp to stop root growth, but I am still a bit concerned about top growth - from what I've seen it's rare for soil temps to dip below 40 degrees even (the numbers you posted would only have (average) no top growth in Jan). Wondering what low N would do for top growth at 40-50 degrees.

All this isn't helped by us going from 9 to 74 degrees in 4 days (air temp)!!!

[j4c11]

PGR?

That's pretty interesting - where did you find that data from? Assuming here in Knightdale (just outside of Raleigh), will be pretty similar.

My reno is looking pretty pale green now - thinking of laying some milo out. I think it very rarely gets down to 33 degrees soil temp to stop root growth, but I am still a bit concerned about top growth - from what I've seen it's rare for soil temps to dip below 40 degrees even (the numbers you posted would only have (average) no top growth in Jan). Wondering what low N would do for top growth at 40-50 degrees.

All this isn't helped by us going from 9 to 74 degrees in 4 days (air temp)!!!

Plant Growth Regulators like trinexapac-ethyl slow top growth.

The data is from the CRONOS database, the nearest station to me is the NC A&T SU Research Farm (NCAT) and has soil temp data. There's hundreds of stations across NC and neighboring states, chances are high if you go through the list you'll find one very close to you. Not all stations report soil temperature though.

http://climate.ncsu.edu/cronos/?station=NCAT
http://climate.ncsu.edu/map/

You can always use foliar iron and N to boost color, you can safely do 3oz/K of ferrous sulfate heptahydrate + 2.4oz of ammonium sulfate per app with fescue. It should last a long time with little to no top growth.

[j4c11]

I had to mow today, the bluegrass is chugging along. Most of what I cut is new growth, either tillers or daughter plants via rhizomes, hard to determine. The fescue is not growing at all, seems bluegrass is better adapted to growing in cooler weather.
I applied another pound of N to the area today since rain is in the forecast for tomorrow. I suspect there continues to be root growth just like there continues to be top growth. I need every quarter inch of root I can get to make it through summer.

[LouisvilleGrubber]

Two week follow up here. My application was followed by lots of rain and warm temps and then a plunge to single digits for a few days. There has been no noticeable top growth and the lawn is taking on that soggy, thin winter appearance. AKA dormancy. Although it is definitely greener than the average lawn.

I'd say I timed it about right. I'm hoping for some long roots.

[redcoat]

You can always use foliar iron and N to boost color, you can safely do 3oz/K of ferrous sulfate heptahydrate + 2.4oz of ammonium sulfate per app with fescue. It should last a long time with little to no top growth.

I'm actually thinking it's more a sign of the whole grass not being happy, and needing some nitrogen to be a little healthier, even in the winter. It's *very* pale increasingly in much of it.

My hesitancy is that temps are 70 degrees at the moment! And forecast to stay above 50-60 for some time.

If I were to apply a small amount of Nitrogen, would it be best to use Milo?

Thanks!

[j4c11]

You can always use foliar iron and N to boost color, you can safely do 3oz/K of ferrous sulfate heptahydrate + 2.4oz of ammonium sulfate per app with fescue. It should last a long time with little to no top growth.

I'm actually thinking it's more a sign of the whole grass not being happy, and needing some nitrogen to be a little healthier, even in the winter. It's *very* pale increasingly in much of it.

My hesitancy is that temps are 70 degrees at the moment! And forecast to stay above 50-60 for some time.

If I were to apply a small amount of Nitrogen, would it be best to use Milo?

Thanks!

Are you sure you're not getting overrun with Poa Annua? Can you post a picture of the "very pale" areas?

[redcoat]

I don't believe there's much, if any, Poa that I can see.

Uploaded photos here: https://goo.gl/photos/USHzifTfa2HULRDJ6

I have *really* poor sandy soil apparently, so I'm thinking it needs some nitrogen after the reno in the Fall...

Although the temps have been cool, there's been a real lack of rain recently. Wondering how much that's playing into it too.

thanks!

[redcoat]

anyone have any thoughts on those pics and best thing to do at this point?

[bernstem]

Looks like winter dormancy. I would let it chill and stop Nitrogen applications. My impression is that Tall Fescue goes dormant sooner than KBG in the fall/winter. Some of the variability in color/browning is likely related to different cultivars and/or areas of microclimate. I would resume lawn care in the spring again when it wakes up.

[LouisvilleGrubber]

Welp. It's growing. The grass is growing. In February. Large isolated patches. Also have some wild onions coming up. Sweet Maria. What have I done? Mower is in the shop. 70s this weekend. First mow is usually mid to late March. Forsythia has buds.

[nclawnguy]

Mowed my lawn on Saturday, it's greening up. Haven't really had a winter. Just about time for pre emergent for me.

[j4c11]

anyone have any thoughts on those pics and best thing to do at this point?

I'll second bernstem's assessment, it looks dormant(or dead). Could very well be a water issue, our winter has been very mild towards non-existent this year so fescue definitely should have stayed green.

I've been mowing every 2 weeks through winter, and it's only going to pick up from here. Thus, round 1 of trinexapac went down Sunday along with iron and ammonium sulfate.

Does anyone have experience with pushing N while suppressing growth with trinexapac? Does that result in enhanced root growth or wasted nitrogen?

[RockinMyLawn]

Mowed my lawn on Saturday, it's greening up. Haven't really had a winter. Just about time for pre emergent for me.

Wow - gorgeous.
What's your temps been like since November?

Did you do any winterization regimen?

[nclawnguy]

Wow - gorgeous.
What's your temps been like since November?

Did you do any winterization regimen?

It's been one of the warmest winters on record. 10+ days over 70, this week in the 60's and weekend 70's again.
I did not winterize this year, too warm, thought it would create crazy top growth. Last fert was on thanksgiving.
Lawn is a crap fescue blend that I have overseeded into last 2 years.

[Zareth]

Since much of this seems to be guess work I went ahead and experimented.

I applied my winterizer in December on my front yard but not my side yard or back yard, we had some cold weather but I don't think stoppage had occurred completely as I saw the color and length improve ever so slightly afterwards.
Winter was mild although I did get 2 days of snow cover and I saw yellow tips and slightly discoloration after the snow, this was consistent in all my yards.
Warmer weather came and the grass has sprung to life already, and is growing a lot quicker and darker than my other 2 lawn areas.
Also the traffic resistance where we get in and out of our cars seems better in the area that had the winterizer applied (probably incorrectly)

Now this winter was mild so I can't take much away from my "experiment" but I didn't notice any negatives from applying.

[Zareth]

Do the higher doses of urea cause more topgrowth? And is it relative to other nutrients at all?
I wonder what a 1/4th lb urea a week would do.

My lawn was rough last year but I hit it with urea and Milo in April when all my reading said no ferts after marxh 1st