How 'bout it Transition zone?

[bernstem]

My turf is starting to wake up. I would bet that if I mowed off the brown tips, it would be dark green. Even so, I'm going to let it go for a bit before a clean-up mow. In warmer areas it is also time to start thinking about pre-emergent. Start looking for Forsythia bloom. I expect it to be early this year.

[nclawnguy]

Forsythia, callery pears and ornamental cherry trees blooming in Charlotte right now. If in this area, time to get pre-m down.

[RockinMyLawn]

My turf is starting to wake up. I would bet that if I mowed off the brown tips, it would be dark green. Even so, I'm going to let it go for a bit before a clean-up mow. In warmer areas it is also time to start thinking about pre-emergent. Start looking for Forsythia bloom. I expect it to be early this year.

I wanted to try Prodiamine Or Tenacity this year as my Pre_M -thought not sure which one is more performacne & cost effective vs. a bag of B&M Pre_M.
In Central VA - which I consider a transition zone area - We've been getting 2-3 days of 70°+ weather for the last 2 weeks.
Expecting it to go to 3-4 days these next 2 weeks.
Grass is still at least 80% dormant.

Should I still wait for the Forsythia bloom to lay down the Pre_M?

I ask because it appears my neighbors chem lawn services have already begun laying their liquids down earlier this month already.

[andy10917]

Forsythia is the best indicator because its blooming time aligns well with the optimal time to get down pre-emergents. The Forsythia do not care about whether the lawncare guys' wallets are empty - their biggest motivator.

[bernstem]

Lawn services will often start pre-emergent applications early to make sure they can get to all their lawns in time. Early is better than later - especially if you use a longer acting agent like Prodiamine. Since we only have one lawn to manage, we can time it more exactly.

[DTockeII]

I don't think we have Forsynthia in my area (very NE Illinois), is there any other easy indicator to know when its time for Pre-emergents? Just ordered up Tenacity and Prodamine. Was leaning to Tenacity as from what I can tell, its the easier of the two to use and not screw up. But the longer benefits of Prodamine have me scratching my chin too...

[andy10917]

I wouldn't compare Tenacity and Prodiamine as Pre-M's. Tenacity is a post-emergent with some short-term (4-6 week) pre-emergent properties. It permits seeding - which makes it wonderful, but as a real Pre-M it isn't as good as Prodiamine.

[DTockeII]

Sounds good Andy, sounds like initial pre-em will be Prodiamine then. Can Tenacity be used to kill anything not getting caught by the Prodiamine?

[andy10917]

Maybe. Not much slips by Prodiamine though.

[RockinMyLawn]

Lawn services will often start pre-emergent applications early to make sure they can get to all their lawns in time. Early is better than later - especially if you use a longer acting agent like Prodiamine. Since we only have one lawn to manage, we can time it more exactly.

Thanks for the feedback!

Does one apply Prodiamine when the Forsythia initially bloom or can apply throughout the blooming period?

[STL]

Interested in hearing thoughts on applying grains in spring in the transition zone. I applied a winterizing urea app after top growth stopped on my fall TTTF reno and I'm not going to apply any fast release N until the fall. I am considering 20-40lbs/K cracked corn monthly and possibly mixing in one or two apps of 20lbs/K alfalfa pellets as well.

[LoneRanger]

^ Sounds like a winner but, shouldn't some milo be in the plans?

[bernstem]

Ideal timing for pre-emergent is when Forsythia first blooms, in my opinion, as a bit early is better than a bit late. I generally try to get it down as soon as it blooms. I saw the first blooms around me 3 days ago. Prodiamine will be going down this weekend. Another indicator around me is Magnolia blooming, but you won't see those much further north.

Grains should be fine at any time in the transition zone. Generally, Alfalfa is limited to monthly applications as it has a turf growth hormone in it that you don't want to overdose on. I do try not to overdo even grains in the spring as they will still push growth, but not as much as synthetics. Milorganite is ~40% fast release so keep that in mind for spring use.

[STL]

Read up on some older threads about alfalfa and looks like it promotes too much top growth for what I was thinking. A couple posters were very adamant about not adding any nitrogen. I'm going to go with some light cracked corn apps, plus it's way cheaper locally than alfalfa.

[LoneRanger]

Read up on some older threads about alfalfa and looks like it promotes too much top growth for what I was thinking.

????

Links, please.

[STL]

Read up on some older threads about alfalfa and looks like it promotes too much top growth for what I was thinking.

????

Links, please.

Here's one that I read that I could find again http://aroundtheyard.com/forums2/viewto ... f=4&t=7937 For the record, I'm going to play it conservative since I have a new lawn, did a winterizing app last year, and summers are brutally hot and humid in St. Louis. YMMV

[LoneRanger]

^ Thanx! I was of the same assumption as jglongisland. I didn't know about it's other extreme promotion.

Always a big thanx to Andy, as well.

[RockinMyLawn]

Ideal timing for pre-emergent is when Forsythia first blooms, in my opinion, as a bit early is better than a bit late. I generally try to get it down as soon as it blooms. I saw the first blooms around me 3 days ago. Prodiamine will be going down this weekend. Another indicator around me is Magnolia blooming, but you won't see those much further north.

So is this stupid to do: My outdoor irrigation doesn't get turned on till April.
We're expecting possible snow this Sunday in the Central VA area.

Would it be foolhardy to lay down Prodiamine before the snow to take advantage of the 'watering in"?
Of course - dilution with the snow melt could be an issue?

I couldn't find anything that says not a good idea relating to snow or ground temps on the Prodiamine label

[bernstem]

It will be fine to apply before snow. The melting snow will not dilute it any more than watering it in will, and it needs to be watered/rained in to move it into the top of the soil profile.

To answer another question earlier, the duration of protection provided by Prodiamine varies by dose (with max dose varying by grass type) and average temperature (with a slight decrease in effective duration as it gets warmer). In the transition zone, the duration of action can be anywhere from ~3-8 months for cool season turf.

If it matters, I apply 0.75 lbs/Acre in the spring and again in the fall. That covers my lawn for ~3-4 months per application and takes care of the prime grassy weed germination seasons (grassy weeds are generally harder to kill than broadleafs so they are my main target for pre-emergent). Coverage wanes a bit in late summer so Spurge doesn't get covered well, but that is about the only weed that really is an issue in my lawn other than some easy to kill perennial broadleafs in the back.

I have a feeling that ideal timing for Pre-emergent is right now for most of the transition zone. For the southern parts, it is possibly past optimum timing.

[RockinMyLawn]

It will be fine to apply before snow. The melting snow will not dilute it any more than watering it in will, and it needs to be watered/rained in to move it into the top of the soil profile.

To answer another question earlier, the duration of protection provided by Prodiamine varies by dose (with max dose varying by grass type) and average temperature (with a slight decrease in effective duration as it gets warmer). In the transition zone, the duration of action can be anywhere from ~3-8 months for cool season turf.

If it matters, I apply 0.75 lbs/Acre in the spring and again in the fall. That covers my lawn for ~3-4 months per application and takes care of the prime grassy weed germination seasons (grassy weeds are generally harder to kill than broadleafs so they are my main target for pre-emergent). Coverage wanes a bit in late summer so Spurge doesn't get covered well, but that is about the only weed that really is an issue in my lawn other than some easy to kill perennial broadleafs in the back.

I have a feeling that ideal timing for Pre-emergent is right now for most of the transition zone. For the southern parts, it is possibly past optimum timing.

I figured the snow would be a proxy H20 carrier for the Prodiamine.
And my application rate is going to be the middle of therlabel's guidance range: 0.185-0.55 oz/1000 sqft.


Thanks for the feedback!