How 'bout it Transition zone?

[LouisvilleGrubber]

I'm finding myself in the exact same nitrogen boat as last year. I have to drop today or it will be at least two weeks before I can get to it due to vacation, work etc. and that's weather permitting. What are the odds that mid January will be great firtilizing weather? You don't have to answer that.

Last year I ended up not dropping any N and I think I payed for it. I could drop it today. We even have rain in the forecast, BUT my lawn looks like a golf course -nice and green and I cut about a quarter of an inch off yesterday. HOWEVER, that was two weeks growth. Is it still growing? Not enough to mow again if I were a lay person for sure. But no, I'm a nut.

I'm guessing (and I've read here) that I'm not the only transition zoner in this predicament. It's today or likely never. Vacation bus leves in 8 hours. 60s and 70s forecast for the next few days. What did you all decide for yourselves?

[MorpheusPA]

Andy's prolly going to disagree with me, but I'd say go for it. Your temperatures drop into the middling forties on Tuesday and don't look like they're going to recover (in fact, it gets colder after that). So growth looks like it stops just about the time the nitrogen is available to the lawn.

And if you haven't fed at all, missing perfect timing by a few days is far better than never feeding.

[andy10917]

I don't know whether I agree or disagree. I have no experience with whether the incidence of snow mold or tender growth damage rises when you don't wait for complete growth stoppage. And there is no way Morph or I *can* know - we don't live in the Transition Zone. I've gotten both PM's and threads that ask me to guess, but I refuse to -- I don't see how untested guesses improve the information on the site.

[seiyafan]

Only A/B testing can help you get the right answer for your area.

[Green]

Isn't this a case where some delayed-release Nitrogen in the mixture is a benefit?

[andy10917]

You mean slow-release? Coated slow-release fertilizers can cost as much as 3X what simple Urea costs. Why would slow-release add value if most of the period after the app is a zero-growth period? The goal of the Fall Nitrogen Regimens is to load-up the roots with stored Nitrogen during the short period after top growth stops. That seems in opposition to the goals of slow-release fertilizers.

[LouisvilleGrubber]

Thanks for all the input. Snow mold is a non issue around here as far as I know. Snow only sticks around a coupl of days at a time.

I was hoping to draw some transition zone lurkers out of the woodwork (hence the seprate thread). Hopefully a few will check in for future reference. I have made a few changes to the generally accepted cool season timelines to make things work here in the almost South. It would be interesting to compare notes.

The bad news is that I probably won't be able to provide any data for the site on N before stoppage. My wife just reminded me I have January 2nd available. That's going to be my day come hell or high water. I'll update later as it is possible the grass will still be growing a bit.

[j4c11]

I dropped urea and ammonium sulfate yesterday as winterizer. I don't have irrigation so I was waiting for a good rain, and it came last night. Same situation, about a quarter inch of growth in the past two weeks - the newly seeded KBG is still growing while the fescue has stopped. Dec 15th- Dec 31st is my typical winterizer window here in NC, depending on weather conditions.

[nclawnguy]

Snow mold is zero issue where I live. If it snows, its gone in a day or 2. Our average high in January is 50-52 degrees. I'm guessing you have a similar climate, probably a bit colder. My lawn really goes dormant in the winter.

[Green]

Andy, I wasn't thinking so much true slow coated urea. More along the lines of something intermediate like Scott's 32-0-4 with a bit of methylene urea or urea-form molecules mixed in to add a percentage of delayed release N to the fast release stuff.

[redcoat]

Snow mold is zero issue where I live. If it snows, its gone in a day or 2. Our average high in January is 50-52 degrees. I'm guessing you have a similar climate, probably a bit colder. My lawn really goes dormant in the winter.

Hi,

Do you mean "really" or "rarely"?

What approach do you take with winterizer?

[nclawnguy]

Do you mean "really" or "rarely"?

What approach do you take with winterizer?

Rarely, sorry typo. I usually drop my final N feeding around Christmas to New Years. Lawn usually slows down to a slow crawl by then, but cannot guarantee it has completely stopped. Average highs in 50's in January and could get a week near 60 will cause the lawn to continue to grow, especially a well fed healthy lawn. Do not have the same climate as folks up north where cool season lawns stop for a few months.

[HoosierLawnGnome]

Yeah, I think snow mold is largely related to duration of snow coverage.

Here in central IN, I've never had more than a few spots of it in a season. We don't get snow coverage for more than a few weeks normally. A few years ago on my first renovation it was covered longer and I had a couple minor spots I raked out late winter.

Basically extended snow coverage is a requirement for GREY snow mold to develop. I doubt anybody south of IN has to worry about it.

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmed ... -101-W.pdf

Pink snow mold is another story.

Its interesting to watch the posters on this site in the early spring talk about snow mold. There was a year where everyone east coast NJ area seemed to have it, particularly if they had fescue. They had a longer period of coverage.

[LoneRanger]

^ I already have it on my new front establishment.

[crabgrass]

Don't over-think this in Transition. Traditional winterizer usually is impossible to time here. Just Milo your way through winter. When it gets cold, stop. When warm resume. Basically I drop into January and stop. Then pick up in late Feb.

Sometimes grass does not go dormant, so it's not feasible to winterize, IMHO.

[weigojmi]

I've adopted the same plan as above but have one more apps worth of Urea left so am hitting it this week. I actually should have done it before this big rain we have now but missed the op.

[crabgrass]

Sure, urea makes sense as always in Fall. I would just not over-do it, hence the relative safety of Milo.

[redcoat]

Don't over-think this in Transition. Traditional winterizer usually is impossible to time here. Just Milo your way through winter. When it gets cold, stop. When warm resume. Basically I drop into January and stop. Then pick up in late Feb.

Sometimes grass does not go dormant, so it's not feasible to winterize, IMHO.

Hi,

I wish I'd known this! In hindsight, I think my reno would have benefited from ongoing nitrogen, but I'll start the milo in mid Feb, depending on the weather.

[LouisvilleGrubber]

Ok. I ended up getting the Urea down Sunday afternoon. There was a little unevenness in the turf indicating to me that there may have been some growth in certain areas over the past week, but due to my schedule (and to some degree the calendar - first mow is generally mid-March) it was now or never. Rain after the application w/ temps in the 60s. A couple inches of snow expected today. Maybe that will put her to bed.

It should be noted that I only made two early Fall applications two weeks apart right around the average first frost date in Mid-October. The lawn was suffering from heat stress up to that point so I didn't feel that dropping N was the way to go.

I'll report back with results.

[bernstem]

Winter Nitrogen for cool season turf is difficult in the Transition zone. Snow mold is a non-issue as there isn't enough cold or snow to let it set in. The bigger issue in my mind is how winter/fall Nitrogen affect summer heat tolerance. While in St. Louis I almost always have a definite period of dormancy by January, warmer areas may not see real dormancy in more cold tolerant species like KBG. There isn't any data, unfortunately, to guide Nitrogen applications that I am aware of in that case.

I am going to put a big disclaimer here that everything that follows is extrapolation from principles and not based on any data. Use at your own risk.

I think a reasonable method is to follow the principle that Turf needs Nitrogen if it is growing. Unlike places where dormancy and root storage of nutrients for winter/spring is important, if there is not a period of dormancy then the pause of fertilization and winterizer application may not apply. In that case an argument could be made for lower rates of Nitrogen when the grass is growing slower. The real unknown is how this will affect summer performance and heat/drought tolerance. We know that too much spring Nitrogen negatively affects cool season turf's summer performance. In the transition zone where there isn't a period of winter dormancy I am not sure how you would judge when to stop Nitrogen for the spring to prevent summer issues.

I think it is worth noting that none of the members with a lot of experience in growing turf or whose job is to grow turf have given any solid input on this (what I suggest above should not be taken as gospel). That strongly suggests to me that no one is willing to put their name out there and give a definitive answer. I personally thought long and hard before this post for that reason, but maybe it will stimulate some discussion.