Grassy weed ID and weed triangle advice

[GnomeDome]

I'm running late, as always, but trying to get the yard some attention. Early spring was warmer than normal and our last snow was the first week of May, so it's time to get out and try to grow a lawn.

I've used weed ID tools and cannot decide what this is. I am horrible at weed ID, so I'm hoping someone here can help.

I've have a thread over in the renovation area, but basically we left our front yard alone and planted new grass when we had the whole backyard regraded. We used Scott's starter with mesotrione and planted a KBG blend. I'll call it a mild success - more grass than weeds grew this time, even if it wasn't thick and even like other folks on here seem to achieve when renovating.

I'm noticing a lot of what seems to be the same weed popping up in the renovated area. It seems to start out kind of flat a bit, with reddish/purplish stems, then grows more upright and turns a brighter green. I can't say 100% they are the same weed, but it seems like the same weed in different growth stages.

The overall photo is on a hill where the grass is thinner overall, but it shows how they are growing. Some areas of the yard have a lot less than others, but it definitely seems worse in the areas of thinner grass (which is a lot of places). There are a few other broadleaf weeds here and there, but this grassy stuff seems to be the most prominent right now.

Triangle advice:

The front yard is a mix of broadleaf weeds, ground ivy, and some sort of spreading clovery looking stuff with little yellow flowers. The yellow flowery stuff has spread a lot the last few years, it even hangs over the sidewalk and I have to lift it up to mow it back. I wish I had taken a picture last year because from memory I can't quite sort it out with a weed ID tool. The little flowers are actually kind of cute and I would like them if they weren't growing all over the lawn. I'm wondering if going straight to a product with triclopyr might be a good idea to address the ground ivy. Something similar to Crossbow, which also has 2,4D to help with those broadleaf weeds? We hope to renovate the front yard this fall, but it will depend how the backyard is coming along because we need a place to play with our dog.

Thanks for reading this far. And also for any advice that might be out there.

[GnomeDome]

I couldn't get all my photos to load at once, only two at a time it seems.

[double_e5]

I'd wait for someone with a little more experience IDing weeds to be sure, but your pictures look like quackgrass to me. The clovery looking weeds with yellow flowers sounds like oxalis. If you use triclopyr on the ground ivy, it will take care of the oxalis too.

[GnomeDome]

Thank you, double_e5. I had wondered about quack, but haven't seen the clasping oracles yet. I'm hoping that's not it because it will take me forever to go through and touch each one with roundup.

[GnomeDome]

Does anyone think this could be crabgrass? I know it's early, but we did have a much warmer winter and spring than usual. And I read that crabgrass stems can be a purplish reddish color on the stem when it's cooler. There is definitely a membrane when I peel a leaf back, which I read is common of crabgrass.

I hope someone can help, I'd really like to treat it without applying unnecessary chemicals to eliminate it.

[kbgfarmer]

I have some of the same popping up. I think it's crabgrass as well.

[GnomeDome]

Thank you, kbgfarmer. I'll do some research and find a product that can handle some broadleaf stuff and crabgrass and hope it takes care of it. If it doesn't work I guess I'll try my hand at spraying each weed individually with some roundup or something. I hate weed identification, I am absolutely horrible at it and get myself too bogged down with it all.

[ken-n-nancy]

Thank you, kbgfarmer. I'll do some research and find a product that can handle some broadleaf stuff and crabgrass and hope it takes care of it.

The "go-to" for crabgrass as a post-emergent is Drive XLR8, which has Quinclorac as the active ingredient. Also happens to take out Dandelions and Clover. (Although the best way to deal with crabgrass specifically is to use a pre-emergent like prodiamine in spring at forsythia bloom.)

If it doesn't work I guess I'll try my hand at spraying each weed individually with some roundup or something. I hate weed identification, I am absolutely horrible at it and get myself too bogged down with it all.

That's exactly the reason for the triangle approach!

[GnomeDome]

I've seen quinclorac in a few products. I also saw another product called Hi-Yield Grass Killer which is supposed to take out tough grasses, including crabgrass, but it does not have quinclorac. I haven't read enough about it to see if it's a good option.

I see the value of the weed triangle, but if I'm mainly dealing with one weed in the renovated area I'd rather attack it directly than apply layer after layer of chemical that doesn't address it. There are a few broadleaf weed here and there, so I may as well get them at the same time if I can, but if not that's okay too. The front yard is a hot mess, so I'm going to see what the triangle can do for it until we can renovate.

I have tenacity, but I have read time and again that it should remain holstered unless really necessary. I may use it on a test area where there are some of the pictured weeds but I need to put a little seed down. If it wipes it out but quinclorac doesn't, perhaps that is an option.

Yard stuff is tough - mowing the weeds once a week was so much easier. But hopefully we'll have success and enjoy the fruits of this labor.

[ken-n-nancy]

I've seen quinclorac in a few products. I also saw another product called Hi-Yield Grass Killer which is supposed to take out tough grasses, including crabgrass, but it does not have quinclorac. I haven't read enough about it to see if it's a good option.

Danger, Will Robinson, Danger!

Be careful around any products marketed as a "Grass Killer" -- yes, they will kill crabgrass and other tough grasses, but they'll also kill or damage the desirable grasses in your lawn, too!

I'm pretty sure the specific product you mention is intended to kill grasses from vegetable gardens, flower beds, and ground covers, without damaging the ornamental plants. It'll do quite a number on the good grass in your turf!

[GnomeDome]

Aha! I had that suspicion. I hadn't pulled up the label yet to read it and see what it was all about. I probably won't even worry about it now, but will go straight for quinclorac. I seriously hope it is the right way to go because I am not up for a big battle yet

[smast16]

GnomeDome I used tenacity to rid myself of crab grass last year. It works, I can vouch for it, but it does take 2-3 apps to kill it off.

[andy10917]

Using part of your annual maximum of Tenacity to fight a weed as easy as Crabgrass is almost sinful. Quinclorac does a better job, faster, and controls additional crabgrass for 45 days. Properly timed, 2 applications of Quinclorac will probably get you through a Minnesota summer.

Yellow flowers on clover-like plants is the signature of Oxalis. Did we mention that the most popular Triclopyr product is Ortho's Clover Chickweed and Oxalis Killer? Amy better info than that and we'd have to come to your house to personally fix it.

[GnomeDome]

I am going to use quinclorac. I said that in the area I plan to reseed and will use tenacity I can compare how the weeds react compared to the quinclorac. If it's not crabgrass and the quinclorac doesn't kill it but the tenacity does I'll need to evaluate my options at that time.

[GnomeDome]

Yes, oxalis has been mentioned. And I believe I have already stated that I intend to use a triclopyr product to address it and the creeping charlie in the front yard.

I'm not really sure what your comment regarding better info is about. I don't believe I've brushed off anyone's feedback or argued with anyone. Early on I asked for feedback regarding the possibility that it could be crabgrass, and the consensus seemed to be to move forward as if it were. I'm sorry if I've offended you in some way, but I thought things were going okay in here.

[andy10917]

I'm not really sure what your comment regarding better info is about. I don't believe I've brushed off anyone's feedback or argued with anyone. Early on I asked for feedback regarding the possibility that it could be crabgrass, and the consensus seemed to be to move forward as if it were. I'm sorry if I've offended you in some way, but I thought things were going okay in here.

No criticism written or intended! It was a comment that meant "Damn! If the ID's were good, then that's an open-and-shut case for knocking out the Oxalis. It's straightforward".

I have my doubts about crabgrass that mature in Minnesota in May, but *if* that's crabgrass, then Quinclorac is the go-to for your lawn.

[GnomeDome]

Sorry to have taken it poorly! I am very hopeful things will work and we'll have things going in the right direction! I am sure the neighbors are just happy to see us trying

[GaryCinChicago]

Does anyone think this could be crabgrass? I know it's early, but we did have a much warmer winter and spring than usual. And I read that crabgrass stems can be a purplish reddish color on the stem when it's cooler. There is definitely a membrane when I peel a leaf back, which I read is common of crabgrass.

I hope someone can help, I'd really like to treat it without applying unnecessary chemicals to eliminate it.

Not in MN that tall and big yet.
http://purdueturftips.blogspot.com/2012 ... inate.html

[GaryCinChicago]

GnomeDome I used tenacity to rid myself of crab grass last year. It works, I can vouch for it, but it does take 2-3 apps to kill it off.

And that was foolish.
You used a $60 herbicide to kill a two-bit weed, one that only requires actually one app.

[smast16]

And that was foolish.
You used a $60 herbicide to kill a two-bit weed, one that only requires actually one app.

This was last August and the Quinclorac percentages in WBG are no where near strong enough to kill fully mature crabgrass. Now i don't know how crab grass is where you are from, but in Central NC, in 90+ degree temps, with little rainfall, and in a stressed to-the-max lawn, crabgrass is no two-bit weed. Now, I already had Tenacity, so why would i spend more money to buy a product to perform the same function of something i already had? I used .5 teaspoons per application and at 2 applications, so i used $0.80 worth of Tenacity. A far cry from $60.

Now Andy makes a very valid point about yearly maximums. And if you want to criticize my decision on that basis, then by all means. But i hardly think you can call me foolish for spending $0.80 of product vs. $40-$60 to purchase another herbicide.