Velocity results so far and questions

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
Green
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Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Green » May 18th, 2017, 11:31 pm

So a couple of years ago, I decided to try Velocity to reduce the amount of Poa Trivialis in the lawn. Each year, the patches were getting bigger and merging together. I picked Velocity over Certainty because, while I knew Velocity might toast my KBG, I have Turf type Tall Fescue mixed with it in some areas, and Turf type Perennial Ryegrass in some areas. Both are easy to reseed if required.

Finally, this Spring I started a proper regimen with the Velocity after having read extensively, tested it out a good bit, etc.

Unfortunately, I don't know how much square footage of Triv I have because of the irregular patches. I can eyeball it and guess. But what I think is really important are my spraying habits, and how much area I cover when I spray, because that, along with my Velocity mixture concentrations are what determine my application rate.

In general, when I spot spray anything, I'm using between 0.5 and 1 gallon of mix per thousand square feet. 0.5 would be the low end. Let's just say it's 1.0 gallon per thousand square feet for simplicity. (Very worst case, my application rate could be half of what I think it is if we use 1.0.) I'm giving this info because I think it's pertinent to what follows...

I started my regimen on 4/20. (Note: Starting this early in my area is technically off-label use; do so at your own risk.) Here are my tank dilutions and the dates I applied the Velocity. Remember, each gallon is covering roughly 1000 square feet, but maybe a bit more given my frugal spraying habits. If one gallon wasn't enough, I simply refilled and remixed to finish up. I have a good amount of Triv. 0.65g of Velocity is going to equate to roughly the 1-oz per acre rate given this...maybe a bit lower, such as 0.75oz per acre. Keeping this all in mind, here's my calendar of applications thus far (all apps. are in 1 gallon of H2O, and are covering approx. 1000 sq. feet):

4/20: 0.7g Velocity (note: roughly 1oz/acre)

4/24: 0.4g Velocity

4/27: 0.55g Velocity

5/1: 0.7g Velocity

5/9: 1.0g Velocity

5/16: 1.2g Velocity (note: roughly 1.75-1.85oz/acre)

I'm careful not to mow within 2 days on both sides of applying.

Results: So far, I haven't killed any Triv. It's discoloring though...seriously discoloring in many areas lately. Most of the KBG is doing decently...mild discoloration only. TTPR and TTTF seem mostly unaffected, as expected. FF seems to discolor as severely as Triv.

Plan: I'm planning to stay the course as long as possible before the Triv goes dormant.

Question: Are these results expected after one month? I'm sorry, I don't have any photos.

wopr
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by wopr » May 19th, 2017, 9:31 pm

It works but so slowly that it is very hard to tell anything is happening. I still have a few spots I need to spray but will probably wait until next year. Summer heat is here.

Green
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Green » May 19th, 2017, 9:57 pm

Summer heat is here, too. CT was the hottest part of the lower 48 yesterday, believe it or not...96 at the airport. And now the Triv looks like its going dormant a bit. Thankfully the heat is breaking starting tomorrow.

wopr: My Velocity SG contains a few funky white particles that are larger and less dense than the small SG granules. I'd liken it to cotton, paper mache, or a few pieces of popped corn. I don't think this is impacting its effectiveness, but I'm curious if anyone else has this in theirs.

Good to know that it's slow for you, too. That's why I started applying early. Even doing so, I don't know if I can kill the Triv before it goes dormant...

Green
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Green » May 19th, 2017, 10:00 pm

Do you think my application rate from 5/16 is what I should continue with, or should I increase even more?

gave20
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by gave20 » May 20th, 2017, 4:37 pm

you're too early for effective triv control with velocity in April and May, and you're too light on the application rate.

https://www.gcsaa.org/uploadedfiles/Edu ... rol-It.pdf


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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Billybob » May 21st, 2017, 12:49 am

Has anyone used Velocity on poa annua? If so does it turn white like tenacity? Is it a slow kill with more than 2 apps?

Green
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Green » May 21st, 2017, 1:34 am

Billybob: I've used Velocity on a small clump of Poa annua. It didn't turn white like Tenacity. It seems like a slow kill, but faster than the Triv it seems. Works pretty well. If you have both Triv and annua together, give it a shot. Otherwise, Tenacity is much more cost-effective if you only have annua.
gave20 wrote:
May 20th, 2017, 4:37 pm
you're too early for effective triv control with velocity in April and May, and you're too light on the application rate.

https://www.gcsaa.org/uploadedfiles/Edu ... rol-It.pdf
Thank you!!!!

gave20
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by gave20 » May 21st, 2017, 1:03 pm

I will tell you, even after it was dead from the velocity it came back but I had small patches and overall was very happy with the control, now when I have outbreaks I either use certainty or RU and plug the patch.

Green
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Green » May 21st, 2017, 2:22 pm

Nice! What was your rate and schedule, if you could share?

Green
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Green » May 21st, 2017, 2:29 pm

gave20:

4.5 oz/acre every 14 days starting when?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18483&p=253796&hili ... ty#p253796
Do you still have your notes?

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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Pirate Russ » May 22nd, 2017, 1:16 pm

The directions on spot spraying are not great (which i have done). The directions also say to use it within a certain amount of time from mixing (like a few hours). Anyway, did you keep reusing the same original mixture(i.e. similar to what most of us do with tenacity) or do you create a new mixture for each application?

Green
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Green » May 22nd, 2017, 1:43 pm

New mix each time for the most part.

gave20
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by gave20 » May 24th, 2017, 4:49 pm

Green wrote:
May 21st, 2017, 2:29 pm
gave20:

4.5 oz/acre every 14 days starting when?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18483&p=253796&hili ... ty#p253796
Do you still have your notes?

I actually looked back through my log and my pictures and can't find when I applied but I'm fairly positive it was June into July.

the key is having warm weather for triv growth but not too hot to cause dormancy. I can't find the research but a study was conducting that showed a 3 year trial to remove and success was based on summer temps. cool-wet summer bad control/ hot and dry better control. I know I really stressed the TTTF because of the on-slot of brown patch but for the most part I significantly reduced the triv presence.

you could see the triv turn brown and then after 12 days it would start to green back up and hitting it again would push it back but I know after a month it started to regrow again; I think you would need a multi-year program to completely eradicate. I will say the small, small patches I had come back in the fall I hand pulled and it was easy to remove.

for TTTF velocity is a good option. KBG/rye maybe not so

Green
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Green » May 24th, 2017, 11:06 pm

Thanks. So, now, a year later, did any come back again after pulling out the residual in the Fall?

gave20
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by gave20 » May 25th, 2017, 1:52 pm

no not really, soon after I overseeded KBG into the tall fescue and that helped out compete the triv and now only have it in certain patches that get little sun where it's tougher to control.

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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by wopr » May 28th, 2017, 12:19 am

I've noticed the same inconsistent particles. Not sure why it is like that.
Green wrote:
May 19th, 2017, 9:57 pm
wopr: My Velocity SG contains a few funky white particles that are larger and less dense than the small SG granules. I'd liken it to cotton, paper mache, or a few pieces of popped corn. I don't think this is impacting its effectiveness, but I'm curious if anyone else has this in theirs.

Good to know that it's slow for you, too. That's why I started applying early. Even doing so, I don't know if I can kill the Triv before it goes dormant...

moejoe
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by moejoe » May 28th, 2017, 5:28 pm

Does anyone know the shelf life for velocity unmixed? I have a bottle (dry granular) that I have had for 1 year and the rate I am going, this may last me 10 years!
So far, I am making progress and love this stuff!

Green
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Velocity Canadian Label change

Post by Green » June 5th, 2017, 1:34 pm

Interesting...in Canada, Velocity is now labeled for use on KBG in sod farms. Here's the announcement:
http://www.nufarm.ca/news/velocity-herb ... exibility/

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prog_dave
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by prog_dave » August 2nd, 2017, 11:08 pm

I'm way late to this party. I intended to post a comment on my Velocity experience about the time this post was going strong, but forgot and never saw the thread.

I do not recommend Velocity for treatment of poa trivialis.

I used it in 2015 and 2016, carefully following the instructions. I put down 4 applications (bi-weekly) in the spring of 2015 at the low end of the dosage recommendation (per the instructions, the low end is for when you don't want bare patches and are OK with a slow kill). It seemed to get rid of the triv, but then in the fall it came back stronger than ever, having spread to new parts of the lawn.

In the spring of 2016, I put down 4 applications (also bi-weekly) at the high end of the dosage recommendation. I figured the low doses weren't working - the instructions say that well-established triv won't be affected by the low dosages, so it seemed to make sense. Again it seemed to kill the triv, but it came back in the fall in new parts of the lawn. Two seasons of applying a powerful herbicide, and all I accomplished was to spread the triv to parts of the lawn where it had never been before.

This spring I intended to try again. My theory was that mulch mowing was the source of my problem. I didn't really see any triv seeds while mulch mowing the prior two summers, but maybe I was unintentionally spreading seeds throughout the lawn? Regardless, my plan ended before it began. I noticed a maple tree (whose shade was creating the proper conditions for the triv) looking impaired - slow leaf-out, big-time seed production. An arborist suggested herbicide was the cause. There really was no explanation other than the Velocity. I used no other herbicides the past 2 years. No WBG, no Tenacity. I followed the Velocity instructions carefully.


Here I am early August 2017. The triv is dead/dormant. I know it'll come back in the fall but frankly it doesn't look much different than it did in mid-summer the prior two years. Maybe I screwed up with the mulch mowing and otherwise those two years would have been a tremendous success, but I'll never know. I'm done with Velocity and I think it's best left in the hands of greens keepers.

Green
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Re: Velocity results so far and questions

Post by Green » August 3rd, 2017, 10:05 pm

Thanks for the experience, Dave. I've heard that established Triv, like many of us have, is hard to get rid of, even with glyphosate.

I'm still treating with Velocity. Lawn looks terrible...brown patches everywhere and slightly discolored good grass. Close inspection shows that some of the Triv is actually still green...what the...? Maybe it's all the rain we've had this year (normal amounts, unlike the past 2 years).

I definitely have more brown than other years (when I didn't use Velocity). I'm not sure if that's because the Velocity is killing it better than the heat did last year, or due to the Triv having spread since this time last year, or because of damage to good grass from the Velocity.

Close inspection shows KBG to not be affected that much. If you over-apply repeatedly in spots, it does seem to kill KBG topgrowth, though.

I don't know what's going to happen...how successful this program is going to be or not. And I don't get why some of the Triv is still alive this time of year, even though Velocity is being used. I'm really hoping it's not a resistant strain. It's damaged, but still has green in some areas. This is in more of a shaded area.

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