Help with my Front Lawn KB, Rye, fine Fescue

[Envieddesigns]

Greetings all,
I'm new to the site and hoping to get some helpful info.
I'm in Central NJ and soil type is clay. I believe my grass type is Kb, rye and fine fescue.
Anyhow I've lived here for 10 years and I've always maintained my lawn not knowing much about grass types and tips tricks I've lately been inquiring and reading more on it. Just last year I started going with organic Fert Milo and spot spraying weeds vs that big companies weed and feed stuff. I've also just aerated for the first time last fall. The lawn was in great shape last year and this year I started off well but am now noticing some areas that are not looking too well. I'll attach some photos.

So far this season I have applied in April. Lesco starter fert and Milo. I did half of each to get me 1 full lbs of N.
Two weeks later I applied .75 lbs of N via Milogranite.
I also applied with my pump sprayer patch pro because end of last season I had pretty bad rust issues.
Since I've been running the irrigation twice a week and putting down 1" of water down. I mow at 4".
Last week of April I applied bug b gone because I've noticed webworm moths and I had an issue last year with them also.
I'm noticing some browning I don't know what it is.

I'm now looking into doing a Reno and sticking to one blend. I've read on Turf_Toes project he did and I think the bug bit me. Haha. Here are my photos of this year from the beginning of this season April until today where the browning is showing up.

[Green]

Welcome!

Some quick comments to get things moving in the right direction...

That's quite a bit of Nitrogen for relatively early in the Spring. Especially if you suddenly applied more than usual at this time of year. I'm not sure how well the grass is going to make use of that high Nitrogen situation in April.

Did you apply a pre-emergent herbicide as well...and did it have any N in it in, also?

How much FF do you have in that mix? The FF isn't very tolerant of high N at all...especially in the Spring.

Most likely, your spots are drought stress, disease, or insect damage. What's your hunch, if anything? Any history of problems other than Sod Webworms? Have you dug into a couple of sections to see what's going on underneath?

How much rain/irrigation so far this season?

[Lawnnut]

Did you spary for weeds ? Those spots kinda look like you over applied a weed treatment . How many sq feet is the lawn ?

[Envieddesigns]

Hey guys, thanks for your replies. so here is the run down of what I did and on what dates, I have my Calendar here so I went over it and I think Green you might be right on the High N for the fine fescue because it looks like it is the FF that's yellowing. How much of it I have in the lawn, Hmmm If I had to guesstimate i'd say prob less than 50% of it is FF. I did pull up on a spot and saw no insect issue underneath. Heres my run down.
Front lawns 3500 sq ft. I mow every 3 days at 4" and water 2 days a week to get my 1" of water down.
rain so far based on AGWEB says between 15-20".
only issues I've seen were the sod webworm moths and I get a little Yellow nutsedge in the summer that I treated with sedge hammer last year.

April 2nd I put down Lesco Starter fert half and half of Ringer organic Fert to get 1 full LBS of N.
April 11th I sprayed entire lawn with Patch Pro FUngicide.
April 15th I put down Lesco Crab Grass pre-emerg that had 18% N along with Milo. I put down about .75 N.
I did my spot spraying on weeds in April but there were barely any weeds this season in the lawn. I had wild onion in one small section that comes up every year I sprayed that but its no where near the area that's browning.

My Hunch, I think maybe its the high N and the FF as you said is not tolerant to high N, which I did not know. I'm pretty much new to learning about diff grass types. I just mowed her today she looks ok from far, just don't get too close, hahah. I just ordered a soil savvy test kit the other day should be in this week so I'll have a little more on the soil part in a short while.

[Envieddesigns]

Here's some pics from todays I pulled up on an area and after mowing.

[Green]

Do you have lesions on the still green blades by any chance?
And is this brown mostly in certain areas, or diffused everywhere?

[g-man]

I just ordered a soil savvy test kit the other day should be in this week so I'll have a little more on the soil part in a short while.

If you want free soil recommendations, follow the steps to send soil samples to Logans lab in the Soil forum ( viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9339 )

It is hard to understand how much N you applied. April 2 was 1lb of N for the 3500sqft or per 1k sqft. On April 15, 0.75 lb of N per 1ksqft? It appears to be too much nitrogen within 2 weeks.

It's been a wet spring (at least in the midwest). I only fired the irrigation once this year (last week). I would cut back on watering twice a week. I water the lawn just prior to seeing signs of stress. This limit the potential for fungus.

[Envieddesigns]

Do you have lesions on the still green blades by any chance?
And is this brown mostly in certain areas, or diffused everywhere?

No lesions on the green areas and the issue is only in certain areas.

[Envieddesigns]

I just ordered a soil savvy test kit the other day should be in this week so I'll have a little more on the soil part in a short while.

If you want free soil recommendations, follow the steps to send soil samples to Logans lab in the Soil forum ( viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9339 )

It is hard to understand how much N you applied. April 2 was 1lb of N for the 3500sqft or per 1k sqft. On April 15, 0.75 lb of N per 1ksqft? It appears to be too much nitrogen within 2 weeks.

It's been a wet spring (at least in the midwest). I only fired the irrigation once this year (last week). I would cut back on watering twice a week. I water the lawn just prior to seeing signs of stress. This limit the potential for fungus.

Thanks for the tip on the soil testing. The 1lbs and the additional .75 is for the 3500 sq ft.

It has been wet here to however when we get rain I ensure the sprinklers do not run if we end up getting the 1" of water. I was told you have to get at least 1" down a week.

[Green]

Just to clarify...you still have to pay for the Logan soil test (standard test). It's the interpretation that you get after (telling you what to put down and when) that G-man was talking about. Andy offers this to members, and has a team of people trained to do it for us.

You don't necessarily have to get exactly one inch a week. Its just that most lawns do best at that level of water. But they do vary by grass type, soil specifics, shade, mowing, etc. I find I usually need an inch or so a week for best results. That one inch a week is pretty accurate in June. In April, I need rain less often, and in July and August, I need to water maybe even more often (more than an inch total per week if it's really hot).

[Green]

Any dogs or wild animals peeing?

And, one pound of Nitrogen? Or 1 lb of fertilizer containing Nitrogen?
If almost 2 lbs of N have been put down in April, you may have a simple case of over-fertilization.

[Envieddesigns]

Any dogs or wild animals peeing?

And, one pound of Nitrogen? Or 1 lb of fertilizer containing Nitrogen?
If almost 2 lbs of N have been put down in April, you may have a simple case of over-fertilization.

No animals here. Yes, so basically a total of almost 2 lbs of nitrogen down all in April.
My next Milo app would be July 4th. If I should even apply more. But my lawn put back is all KB and I've treated it the same as the front but I guess like you said maybe it's high N on the FF out front.

[Green]

I'd urge you to wait until late August or so before applying any more Milorganite. Usually, applying in July only makes things worse, according to those who have done it (drought stress, fungus problems, etc.). If your problems clear up totally in the next few weeks, great. Throwing more fertilizer on the problems, especially in July, isn't going to make them any better. They need to clear up on their own.

Let's try to figure out exactly how much N you've put down, and when...shall we? From what I'm reading, it actually looks like you've put down over 2 lbs/K.

How large is the area?
What was the fertilizer analysis of the starter fert and of the pre-emergent? How much of them both in lbs did you apply? Ringer is 10% N, right? How many lbs of it did you apply? And how many lbs of Milo did you apply? And the date of each application, if you remember or wrote it down.

And I noticed you used a fungicide. That's something that probably shouldn't be used unless you really need it. Just having had rust the season before isn't a good enough reason. Ironically, rust is usually non-existent or minor in high fertility environments, so I doubt you'll have it again with all the fertilizer this time.

[g-man]

^ he provided the info. 1.75 lb of N in a 3500sqft area. That's just 0.5lb of N per Ksqft. I'm not leaning too much on over fertilization.

A HOC of 4in with watering, dense lawn and cool temperatures could cause some early fungus issues, but fungus so early?

[Green]

g-man: I want to make sure that took into account all 4 Nitrogen sources (Milo, Ringer, Pre-M, and starter). Having it itemized by date and amount makes it easier for us to help, and for the OP to see it as well.

And I'm still not clear if these amounts are lb/K of N or just lbs of N over 3.5K.

So far, I'm seeing (the way I interpret it):
April 2nd: 1 lb/K of N from Ringer and starter fert.
April 15th: Lesco Crab Grass pre-emerg that had 18% N along with Milo. 0.75 lb/K of N.

However, it looks like Milo may have gone down twice, according to the original post.

Is this everything?

[Envieddesigns]

g-man: I want to make sure that took into account all 4 Nitrogen sources (Milo, Ringer, Pre-M, and starter). Having it itemized by date and amount makes it easier for us to help, and for the OP to see it as well.

And I'm still not clear if these amounts are lb/K of N or just lbs of N over 3.5K.

So far, I'm seeing (the way I interpret it):
April 2nd: 1 lb/K of N from Ringer and starter fert.
April 15th: Lesco Crab Grass pre-emerg that had 18% N along with Milo. 0.75 lb/K of N.

However, it looks like Milo may have gone down twice, according to the original post.

Is this everything?

Hi,
ok so here are the rates
April 2nd
Lesco Starter fert 18-24-12 put down at 3 LBS/1000 sq ft and Ringer organic Fert 10-0-6 put down at 5 LBS/1000 sq ft. font area is 3501 sq ft and I put down 10.5 lbs of Lesco starter and 17.5 lbs down of Ringer.

April 11th sprayed entire lawn with Patch Pro Fungicide.

April 15th
Lesco Crab Grass pre-emerg I couldn't find it without the Fert value I applied the one that was 19-0-7 at 4 lbs/1000 sq ft. total 14 lbs and then Milo not sure if my bag was a 5-4-0 or a 5-2-0 I cant see the label on the photo I took. Milo put down at 7 lbs/1000.

[Green]

Ok. It's easier for me to see now. Plus, you've got your records itemized now, so when you go back and visit this thread next year, you'll be able to see at a glance what you did, when, and how it worked out.

April 2:
0.18x3= 0.54 lb/K N from Lesco starter
0.10x5= 0.50 lb/K N from Ringer
Total: 1.04 lb/K of N

April 15:
0.19*4= 0.76 lb/K N from Lesco Dimension
0.053*7= 0.371 lb/K N from Milorganite
Total: ~1.13 lb/K of N

Note: I use a value of 5.3% N for 5-2-0 and 5-4-0 Milorganite, because the actual N content is closer to that.

So you've confirmed a total of ~2 lbs/K of N for April. That was over a ~2-week period.

Now let's see how much of that was water soluble N.

From the labels:
Lesco starter: 9.9% WSN
Ringer: 0.65% WSN
Lesco Dimension: 14% WSN
Milorganite 5-2-0: 40% WSN (5-4-0: 20% WSN)

Actual amounts of WSN applied per 1000 ft^2:
0.099x3= 0.297 lb/K from Lesco starter
0.0065x5= 0.033 lb/K from Ringer
0.14x4= 0.56 lb/K from Lesco Dimension
0.010x7= 0.07 lb/K from Milorganite if 5-4-0; 0.14 lb/K if 5-2-0
Total: 0.96 lb/K WSN (or 1.03 lb/K if 5-2-0 Milo was used)

So, of your 2 lbs/K, half of it was fast release N.

Most likely, your grass is just going to be growing really fast this Spring (is it?) and maybe be a little bit more prone to drought stress and/or fungus this Summer form the high fertility environment.

One other question about Nitrogen: when did you apply your last Nitrogen in Fall of 2016? If it had been a while, some of that N is being put to good use by the soil and grass, even if it was more than the grass could make use of in April.

It's hard to say whether or not all that N impacted the grass to help create whatever caused those brown spots you're battling.

[Green]

And to double check...this lawn wasn't newly seeded in the past 2 years or so by any chance, was it?
Because newer lawns do need more fertilizer than existing lawns.

[Envieddesigns]

Ok. It's easier for me to see now. Plus, you've got your records itemized now, so when you go back and visit this thread next year, you'll be able to see at a glance what you did, when, and how it worked out.

April 2:
0.18x3= 0.54 lb/K N from Lesco starter
0.10x5= 0.50 lb/K N from Ringer
Total: 1.04 lb/K of N

April 15:
0.19*4= 0.76 lb/K N from Lesco Dimension
0.053*7= 0.371 lb/K N from Milorganite
Total: ~1.13 lb/K of N

Note: I use a value of 5.3% N for 5-2-0 and 5-4-0 Milorganite, because the actual N content is closer to that.

So you've confirmed a total of ~2 lbs/K of N for April. That was over a ~2-week period.

Now let's see how much of that was water soluble N.

From the labels:
Lesco starter: 9.9% WSN
Ringer: 0.65% WSN
Lesco Dimension: 14% WSN
Milorganite 5-2-0: 40% WSN (5-4-0: 20% WSN)

Actual amounts of WSN applied per 1000 ft^2:
0.099x3= 0.297 lb/K from Lesco starter
0.0065x5= 0.033 lb/K from Ringer
0.14x4= 0.56 lb/K from Lesco Dimension
0.010x7= 0.07 lb/K from Milorganite if 5-4-0; 0.14 lb/K if 5-2-0
Total: 0.96 lb/K WSN (or 1.03 lb/K if 5-2-0 Milo was used)

So, of your 2 lbs/K, half of it was fast release N.

Most likely, your grass is just going to be growing really fast this Spring (is it?) and maybe be a little bit more prone to drought stress and/or fungus this Summer form the high fertility environment.

One other question about Nitrogen: when did you apply your last Nitrogen in Fall of 2016? If it had been a while, some of that N is being put to good use by the soil and grass, even if it was more than the grass could make use of in April.

It's hard to say whether or not all that N impacted the grass to help create whatever caused those brown spots you're battling.

So the lawn is an established lawn. I've lived here 10 years and the lawn was here already when I purchased the house. The last fert app in fall of 2016 was Sept. 17th. With overseeding after aeration. I applied Milo at 15lbs/1000 sq ft on that front area of 3501 sq ft.

Yes I like to keep track of everything. I have photos of last year also see the attached two photos one from first week April 2016 and second from this season first week April. I want to say that the brown areas you see here which haven't greened up yet at the beginning of the season are the areas I see having issues.

One thing I did differently last year though was that I actually did my first mowing height at 2.5" and I also raked the lawn. I didn't choose to do that this year because of how it made my lawn look last year it really made some spots yellow as you can see on the first pic and second pic this year I didn't rake or do the first now low. I left it to grow until I can't reach it at 4".

I've gone back to pictires of last year and she was looking pretty good. Below is what I did last season on start up April 3rd put down some grass seed & lesco starter fert. 14.35 lbs on the 3500 sq ft area. 4 days later mowed 2.5"
April 16th lesco crabgrass pre emerg same bag with fert
13.65 lbs along with Ringer 17.5lbs.

June 15th Milo 51 lbs. down.

Then last app of Milo Sept 17th as mentioned above.

I'm thinking though of just redoing the front lawn in one species Blueberry KB possibly starting in mid Aug. with help from you guys on 29.postimg.cc/qzr6udlk3/IMG_5871.jpg[/img][/url]

[Green]

I bet those spots will improve over the next month. Sounds like they already have somewhat. Beyond figuring out if they're a certain grass type, or if there's disease, insect damage, anything peeing there, anything buried underneath them, or a chemical spill, there's really not much you can do other than watch them, rake them to improve air flow if needed, etc. If the grass is mostly alive in the spots, that's a good sign. Maybe they're areas where there was lingering damage from snow mold, or other Winter issue, and just slow to green up. If they don't get smaller progressively and disappear, then you might have an issue. Another option is to replace them with new grass plugs if they really bother you.

I would hold off on any more fertilizer for the next few weeks since you've already applied so much. Then decide if low rate Milo in mid June is needed. No Nitrogen for July and at least the first half of August.

If you're interested in renovating the front lawn in August, you have plenty of time to prepare if you start the planning soon.