Managing Fescue During HOT Summers - Philosophy?

[PW405]

Doh. *KBG... LOL... my girlfriend came to the screen and said "What is KGB and why would it be in the lawn?"

[Zareth]

Easy on watering, esp during the day. It's asking for disease.

Kbg and tttf will do better occasionally drying out and showing heat stress (curled leaves darker color) and THEN being watered deeply (here in Murfreesboro TN I'm watering for 120 minutes every 6-10 days based solely on what I see the grass doin) disease destroys lawns in these parts. Heat only makes it brown but it can come back.

[Green]

The giant tree creates varying amounts of light, so I was hoping that KGB's shade tolerance may help fill in a few of these areas a little better. This is roughly what I was thinking:

Note that TF is actually more shade tolerant than KBG as a group. Not sure if that influences your plants or not. It looks like you took this into account in your plan.

Again, if you have no problem the various grass types mixing together over time, then try it...you have nothing to lose by experimenting. But you're still going to be managing the sections based on grass type...if you manage TF the same as Bermuda in the heat (frequent irrigation and high N), it's going to die out from disease and you'll be overseeding the entire TF area every year due to die-out.

If you really want to experiment with the KBG buffer zone, I'd try to plant as many small plugs in the area as you can, about 4-6 inches apart if you can. You'll want to do this sometime in the Fall when it's cooler and you can irrigate more often without worrying about disease. You might want to check the soil temps to see where they're at now, and then wait until they're at the level for optimal KBG root growth. At that point, you'll want to hit the plugged area with 0.25-0.5 lb/K of N every 1-2 weeks until they establish. If you can, I'd try to start the seed now...but note that it may too hot outdoors to do so.

Are you going for regular KBG, or hybrid bluegrass?

[PW405]

I have a hybrid Texas x Kentucky I ordered last year from Outside Pride. (http://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass- ... ybrid.html)

Given the different N requirements of KBG and TF, I wonder if I would be creating a situation that is going to be hard to manage.

[Zareth]

Kbg and TF do well together, they will both do fine with 4-5 lbs of N yearly, mostly applied in the fall.
Here is my kbg TF mix in zone 7a, photo taken yesterday

[Green]

It's more the KBG/TTTF vs. the Bermuda. The Bermuda is going to require a totally different fertilizer schedule from the other two.

[PW405]

I see what you're saying. I think no matter which way I go, I'm going to need both cool & warm season grasses together if I want to have turf under the tree. Which reminds me, as far as the fall nitrogen applications for fescue are concerned, I should wait to do them after the new seed has germinated?

[PW405]

Well, the 100's have arrived. Surprisingly, the area that was cause for initial concern is still holding on. That massive dose of antifungals really helped! Getting ready to do another BLSC and KH application. Logan Lab's results posted. Started ~30 KBG pots. For fun, also started a few fescue pots.

There is one section of fescue in the front that has gone dormant, or at least, that's what I assume has happened. It has turned into straw, essentially. A gentle tug indicates roots still in place and holding on. Should I expect it to turn green again in the fall?

Last fall I had mixed TTTF and hybrid KBG in this area. I'm wondering if the KBG has still survived? Reason I ask is, I'm not entirely sure how to identify KBG vs. Fescue. Any tips?

[JHazzardB]

TTTF will have prominent veins running down the length of the blade and is flatter. KBG tends to have one main mid vein/rib and a folded boat shaped growing tip.

Here's my tips for growing TTTF or KBG in Oklahoma:

1) Soil test and amendments (which you are in the process of). The soil gurus are awesome.

2) WATER. I have not been able to do the whole 'wait till it gets stressed then soak it' method. In the OKC summers, if my grass starts getting stressed, I've lost. I have to keep watering to keep it from stressing. Fall and spring are different beasts. You'll be able to get away with stressing it but just not summer. I start watering around 5am and end about 11am. It's a wee bit less that .5" in most places according to my tuna cans. I think NClawnguy is right, its not the heat that kills it, its definitely the water.

3) Front tree. I have one too! It pretty much soaks the moisture out of the ground faster than I can apply it. I try to mulch as many leaves back underneath the tree as possible to help boost the OM in that area of soil. So far, I suck at keeping grass alive under it. Other trees, no biggie.

4) Diseases happen but keep with the anti fungal stuff. My yard gets decimated from disease regularly. I found Heritage and Serenade help tremendously. Overseeding in the fall is a normal thing for me. I've tried probably at least 8 different varieties and combos of TTTF now, NTEP is your friend.

5) I used to fertilize a ton in the spring. I don't so much anymore. I load the fertilizer up in the fall though. I always thought that if I could keep boosting my grass that it would be able to coast through summer. Oops. Let it do its own thing in spring.

6) Write down what you do to the yard. You probably do already but it's handy to be able to look at what you did and when to compare to results.

7) Cutting height matters. The taller you're willing to let it go, the healthier I've found it to be. Take that one random plant in the crack of my driveway that's been there for 4 years. Bakes on the concrete, full sun all day, only water is way underneath the driveway, it's doing fine. It's just 18" tall. I now think the taller and fuller you can make your grass canopy, the more moisture your soil will hold on to. If you cut it too short, sun starts to bake the soil.

8) Beer always tastes better the worse my grass gets. Just saying.

Sorry for rambling on, had a few moments to respond. Lemme know what varieties you go with for your seed, I'd like to know how they do.

[PW405]

TTTF will have prominent veins running down the length of the blade and is flatter. KBG tends to have one main mid vein/rib and a folded boat shaped growing tip.

Here's my tips for growing TTTF or KBG in Oklahoma.....

I knew I'd find another OKC guy around here somewhere! All good advice! - I think for those that have never lived here, they don't understand how brutal our temp° range can be. Based on your advice, I may go back to every other day watering for the next few weeks... that evening sun is absolutely baking the west side of the lawn this time of year. Since the majority of the fecsue I've planted is only 9-10 months old, the canopy hasn't really formed well enough to keep the soil shaded.

Another misstep in my fall seeding was very little N application. I think I did a single cycle of Milo and that was it. Also didn't get the irrigation cycle cut back soon enough. As my fescue was sprouting, I figured "well, shucks, I can throw some rye on the bermuda and see what happens". So I did that, but I kept 2x daily watering going way too late into the fall.

I'm cutting at 3.5" right now, I suppose I can kick it up to 4", but I start to get sprinkler clearance issues.

So many questions for you!!...

Which fescues cultivars have you had good luck with?

Have you ever tried the SPF 30 KBG? Can we get away with non-hybrid blends here?

Do you overseed bermuda with Rye usually? Ever?

Thanks for the input!

[JHazzardB]

I've had very good luck with Bullseye, Falcon V, LS 1200, and Turbo. I think Turbo and Bullseye are top notch in our area. I've actually never tried a hybrid grass. Maybe that's why mine always periodically bites the dust? I looked up the SPF 30 that you mentioned and it looks good, but I haven't seen it used yet.


The only thing I put over my bermuda now is glyphosate. I have really crappy pale-jade colored common bermuda that is an eyesore in my darker green yard. I've been waging war on it for years now. If your goal is to have an awesome green yard in fall and through the cold times, Rye will give it to you. Most people around town will do this. They're the yards where you think to yourself "how did that get green and lush so fast?" Rye will give you an awesome yard in a matter of 1-2 weeks. I just haven't seen it last. I think the perennial ryes are getting much better and others should probably weigh in. I know a lot of them have been toying with the perennial rye yard. I overseed with fescue every fall. It takes a little bit longer to germinate and get coverage, but no where near what KBG takes. And TTTF seems to last further into summer if well watered and maintained.

[PW405]

I've had very good luck with Bullseye, Falcon V, LS 1200, and Turbo. I think Turbo and Bullseye are top notch in our area. I've actually never tried a hybrid grass. Maybe that's why mine always periodically bites the dust? I looked up the SPF 30 that you mentioned and it looks good, but I haven't seen it used yet.


The only thing I put over my bermuda now is glyphosate. I have really crappy pale-jade colored common bermuda that is an eyesore in my darker green yard. I've been waging war on it for years now. If your goal is to have an awesome green yard in fall and through the cold times, Rye will give it to you. Most people around town will do this. They're the yards where you think to yourself "how did that get green and lush so fast?" Rye will give you an awesome yard in a matter of 1-2 weeks. I just haven't seen it last. I think the perennial ryes are getting much better and others should probably weigh in. I know a lot of them have been toying with the perennial rye yard. I overseed with fescue every fall. It takes a little bit longer to germinate and get coverage, but no where near what KBG takes. And TTTF seems to last further into summer if well watered and maintained.

So last fall I tried Bonide's Heat & Drought blend, which is 60% Falcon IV, then 20% of Shenadoah 2 and 20% Shenandoah 3. Looking at the NTEP from OSU, it appears Falcon IV ranked decently high (among the varieties that are actually named). Hard time judging the performance of it though. I was pretty happy with germination rates, but overall, still difficult to judge given my somewhat limited experience with fescue. See attached for progress since seed down.

This spring I tried a blend I got from Precure named "5 Star Fescue". I'm pretty sure it had Bullseye in it. It came in really nice, but summer hit hard and there are some areas that are still doing well. Do you have any favorite local places to pick up seed?

The fescue named "Terrano" seems to another good option based on these NTEP results: http://www.ntep.org/data/tf12/tf12_14-1/tf12ok113t.txt

Can't seem to find where to buy it though.

Wow... looking back at that October picture really makes me want fall to get here fast!!!

[PW405]

Wow, what started as a brutally hot and dry summer has completely reversed. We got ~5" of rain.. in August? I'll take it! One of the coldest and wettest August's I've ever experienced.

Looking ahead to the fall overseed and nitrogen regimen plans, I'm trying to line up a general outline for success. (I know, Andy... Throw away the calendar).

Planning to overseed with fescue and KBG mix. Rye on top of Bermuda. I was thinking the following:

Week 1: apply KBG seed (first half of September)
Week 2: apply fescue seed
Week 3: apply rye seed (in Bermuda sections)

Week 4: first mow? adjust irrigation frequency accordingly
Week 5: light application of N (0.25lb/N)
Week 6: Continue with Fall Fertilizer Regimen based on the advice of the article here.

Does this timing make sense? Our first Frost is typically mid-November. I figured staggering the seed dates will allow proper time for each different grass type to germinate.

[andy10917]

NEVER throw away the calendar - it can be composted.

[PW405]

Code: Select all

NEVER throw away the calendar - it can be composted.

Of course! But I typically use cuneiform tablets for time keeping. Call me old school, but there is just something about an imprinted clay tablet that you just don't get with these new-fangled paper calendars.

Oh, other question I forgot to mention. Think it would be wise to apply a fungicide as preventative before the established grass is wet for 20+ days? I know disease growth is less likely in fall, but we are subject to hot and cold fronts in the fall that could raise temps back to what you northern-folk call "summer".

[andy10917]

I'll preface my opinion by saying that I unless you have a blazing fungus active in your lawn, I think synthetic fungicides cause as much damage than good - one man's opinion.

Think it would be wise to apply a fungicide as preventative before the established grass is wet for 20+ days?

Since there is no all-purpose fungicide, which one would you apply? Why that one? It seems to me to be a bit like hunting by taking random shots around the woods, and then seeing if you hit anything.