Serrenade Best Practices...

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
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northeastlawn
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Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by northeastlawn » August 1st, 2017, 9:27 am

Last year my over-seed was decimated with fungus, this year I started putting down 2-4oz of serenade per 1,000sf with 1-2Tbs BTT starting in May. For most of this year by lawn routine was one week I applied 1/2 bag rate BSF the next I'd put down Serenade. So every week I was applying something.

I have stopped the BSF for the summer, but another thread had me curious about how cutting the grass or watering the grass effects applying the serenade I put down.

Should I plan on applying serenade after I cut the lawn or water the grass?

I was thinking of going weekly with the serenade apps as the humidity goes up. I water the front hell strips every 3-4 days because of the heat.

I'm curious if I'm on the right track, or should be avoiding the serenade application when I do certain things to the lawn.

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ken-n-nancy
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Re: Serenade Best Practices...

Post by ken-n-nancy » August 21st, 2017, 1:01 pm

northeastlawn wrote:
August 1st, 2017, 9:27 am
... another thread had me curious about how cutting the grass or watering the grass effects applying the serenade I put down.

Should I plan on applying serenade after I cut the lawn or water the grass?

I was thinking of going weekly with the serenade apps as the humidity goes up. I water the front hell strips every 3-4 days because of the heat.

I'm curious if I'm on the right track, or should be avoiding the serenade application when I do certain things to the lawn.
We're also new Serenade users this year, at least as far as a preventative approach goes. I am similarly curious as to the best timing of serenade applications as compared to pending/recent rainfall and pending/recent mowing.

I don't have enough experience with Serenade use to have much in the way of empirical answers. However, my guesses are below; hopefully those with more experience will be able to chime in and correct me where my hunches are off-base.

From what I have read about the mechanism of action for Serenade, I believe it is mostly a "contact fungicide" -- thus, rather than having the bacteria in Serenade (the active ingredient) become present in all of the tissues of the grass plants (as would be the case in a "systemic fungicide"), the bacteria lives on the surface of the plants being treated. While there, the Serenade bacteria kill fungus. (You may want to check out Serenade fungicide Mode of Action.)

Thus, the reason that one needs to regularly re-apply Serenade is that eventually the beneficial Serenade bacteria are no longer on the plant, whether due to being washed off, the old grass blades being replaced by new growth, or the bacteria dying off.

If the objective is to have the Serenade attack a foliar fungus, then it makes sense to apply Serenade when it will not be immediately washed off, and after mowing (rather than before) so that the Serenade bacteria will be on the plants longer.

If the objective is to have Serenade attack a fungus affecting the roots, then it's actually necessary to get the Serenade bacteria down into the soil, so applying before light irrigation or rain is what is needed.

Personally, I think the re-application of Serenade every 10-14 days in the days of greatest fungal threat makes sense for a foliar fungus, as that time period is about the duration that rapidly growing grass grows about 3-4 inches, which matches the typical recommended summer cut height for cool season lawns.

So, in sum, I generally try to apply Serenade when a major rain event isn't in the forecast for the next couple days, and within a day of when I last mowed.

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by darkcrisis » August 22nd, 2017, 10:57 am

ken-n-nancy's reply is my basic philosophy and understanding as well. I attribute my 2016 Reno's success to the persistent use of Serenade!

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by Green » August 22nd, 2017, 1:13 pm

How soon after germination and how recently after sowing seed can Serenade be applied?
If I've been using it right along, do I need to stop when I seed?

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by seiyafan » August 23rd, 2017, 6:21 pm

Will it be effective if applied after sunset (if I understand correctly stomata are closed at night, will this hinder absorption?)


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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by andy10917 » August 23rd, 2017, 6:44 pm

Serenade is living creatures. Living creatures do not get absorbed. They live on the grass blades and prey open other living creatures. They go to little bars after sunset - none of the bars are named "Stomata".

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by Green » August 23rd, 2017, 11:41 pm

seiyafan...maybe you were thinking of endophytes, which live in the grass tissue in some Tall Fescue and Ryegrass. But those aren't "absorbed" either.

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by seiyafan » August 24th, 2017, 12:18 pm

Chemical fungicide is absorbed into the leaves right?

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by lVlrBoJang1es » August 25th, 2017, 1:18 pm

seiyafan wrote:
August 24th, 2017, 12:18 pm
Chemical fungicide is absorbed into the leaves right?
If i'm reading this article correctly, there are Systemic and Protectant fungicides for the chemical derivatives as well:
Apply protectant fungicides like Captan, Manzate or Bravo during sunny, dry conditions to allow for quick drying onto the leaves. In fact, it appears that protectant fungicides become better adsorbed to the plant surface and more rainfast over several days after application. Any dew formation at night will help redistribute product over the plant surface. While it is better to have protectant fungicide applications on before a rain or heavy dew event which could represent an infection period, avoid putting on protectant fungicides within several hours before a rainstorm as you may lose much of it to wash-off.

Apply systemic fungicides like Abound under humid, cloudy conditions when the soil is moist. That way, the cuticle, or waxy layer covering the plant surface, will be swelled up and allows the active ingredients to quickly pass through. Under extended hot, dry conditions, the cuticle becomes flattened and less permeable; any product that is not absorbed may remain on the plant surface and break down due to UV light or microbes or get washed off by rain
Source: http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/how_to_get ... ide_sprays

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Re: Serenade Best Practices...

Post by ken-n-nancy » August 25th, 2017, 3:01 pm

seiyafan wrote:
August 24th, 2017, 12:18 pm
Chemical fungicide is absorbed into the leaves right?
Some are, some are not. Whether or not the fungicide is absorbed into the plant depends upon the fungicide, and to a lesser extent, the plant.

In general, "systemic fungicides" are absorbed into the plant and translocated throughout the plant, while "contact fungicides" remain on the surface of the plant and only affect what they touch.

A google search will turn up much more information, for example, this article from Iowa State University Extension on Fungicide Terminology.

My understanding is that Serenade is a "contact fungicide" in terms of mobility.

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by JohnP » September 19th, 2017, 11:11 pm

So if I'm running sprinklers 3x a day is it pointless to apply Serenade? Will it just wash off?

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by Green » September 24th, 2017, 1:19 pm

JohnP wrote:
September 19th, 2017, 11:11 pm
So if I'm running sprinklers 3x a day is it pointless to apply Serenade? Will it just wash off?
I wonder the same thing...

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by ken-n-nancy » September 24th, 2017, 2:02 pm

JohnP wrote:
September 19th, 2017, 11:11 pm
So if I'm running sprinklers 3x a day is it pointless to apply Serenade? Will it just wash off?
Green wrote:
September 24th, 2017, 1:19 pm
I wonder the same thing...
I don't know, either. I know that some contact fungicides are made to be resistant to being washed off (like Dithane) but I have no idea how "rainfast" Serenade is after being applied.

I speculate that Serenade is not particularly rainfast, as I've seen recommendations for treatment of soil-based fungal diseases including watering-in after applying Serenade in order to get the Bacillus subtilis strain QST 713 down into the root zone with the intent of building a biofilm on the plant roots.

I'm curious if any of the longer-term Serenade users have more info.

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Re: Serrenade Best Practices...

Post by seiyafan » October 10th, 2017, 7:47 pm

Instruction says: Do not water foliage within four hours of application.

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