Lawn Novice

[JohnP]

Background: Bought the house in late 2015. Surveyed and bid out privacy fence in 2016 and finally got it installed a month ago. Took forever to get the permit squared away. Now that we know and have our property clearly defined I am compelled to make it better.

Many of our neighbors have great lawns, ours has been mainly weeds since we bought it. My cousin recommended 2, 4-D and I took him up on some. Then I started googling, found this site, found the Triangle Approach and just did step 2 of it about a week ago to the backyard and yesterday to the front yard.

Bought seed (SS5000: Midnight/Diva/Everglade/Fiesta 4/Zodiac) from SeedSuperStore. I am planning to mow at lowest setting and overseed on 9/4. I was talking with a neighbor and he just purchased Tenacity for his yard and is going to hook me up with some for when I put down seed. In exchange when I make up my first soil conditioner batch later this week (ordered everything from Bulk Apothecary) I'm going to hook him up.

I'm going to order a soil analysis yet this week.

So, here's where my brain is:
1) I'm through 1 and 2 on Triangle.
2) I have the soil conditioner coming and will start treatments yet this week. Planning weekly treatments for remainder (most?) of this fall.
3) I did a Milo app in July. Will do another at seed down.
4) Lowest mow setting day before seed down. Half inch water night before.
5) Overseed. I budgeted 5#/1K. Which the 25# should cover front, side and back.
6) Starter (pending analysis?) and Milo.
7) Tenacity at same time.
8) 1/8" peat moss over top.

A question I had was, the previous owner left behind a few things in the shed including a garden weasel. Should I run that over before I seed or would that have similar "stir up and spread weeds" effect as core aeration?

Also a tree in the front yard has exposed roots goin' on. We were going to do some retaining bricks around this tree eventually. For now I've just been acting like they're not there but I don't know if I should grind them down, cover with soil, something else?

I welcome critical feedback and questions. I'm new to all this and the previous owner only mowed. We've been starting to plant things, especially now that the fence is in.

I hope I put this in right category. I didn't do Renovations because I thought that was more for people doing a full kill. If this is in the wrong spot I apologize.

[JohnP]

Here's some shots of the back yard (one of my dogs in a trench I dug for some flowers.

[virginiagal]

Leave the tree roots alone! Don't cut them. Don't cover them with soil. Best thing to do is kill the grass around the tree and put down some mulch (just a couple of inches and keep the mulch off the tree trunk). Also, do not run the lawn mower over the roots. You can damage or even kill a tree by mistreating the roots. If the roots really, really bother you, take the tree down.

What kind of grass do you have now? If it's KBG, there is no need to overseed. If it's tttf or rye, why are you overseeding with KBG? Overseeding with KBG is a difficult thing to do because it's so slow to germinate.

[JohnP]

I'm not sure what kind of grass I have.

The front tree, a while back someone told me to not put mulch around a tree, but I forget why. Something with potential for disease from one wood to another.

I'm okay with the long germination of KBG and the chances associated with that if it means changing it from whatever the previous owner threw down. Knowing how he did other things here it was probably a blend of discount bags from the various big box stores.

[TimmyG]

+1 virginiagal
My similar advice on the subject: Re: Roots coming out of ground on my maple tree

[JohnP]

Thanks guys! I think it's a maple in our front yard as well.

There is one root clear out as far as I think about 6' out.

It's okay to cover in mulch? Should I put some retaining wall bricks around and fill in with that or rock? How deep is too deep for mulch do you think?

[virginiagal]

Here is a website to help you identify what kind of grass you have:
http://turfid.ncsu.edu/ItemID.aspx?orde ... Desc=Grass

Mulch will not harm your tree unless you use too much or pile it up against the tree. If you don't want to use mulch, you can use a living ground cover around the tree. There are various materials that can be used for mulch, for example, pine needles, shredded leaves, wood chips.

KBG can take three or more weeks to germinate. In the meantime your existing grass is growing. What will you do when the grass needs cutting but your seed is still sitting there? If you are unhappy with the kind of grass you have, the logical thing is to replace it, not add something else to it. Do you have irrigation? I would not attempt any kind of seeding unless I had a plan on how to keep the seed moist throughout the germination process. It can be done with hoses and sprinklers and timers but you need to figure out how much area you can water with the set up you have.

[JohnP]

I have sprinklers and hoses and have figured out with cans my depths and timings.

So while I was waiting for my account to be approved (first one I must've seemed like a robot so finally made a second one) I did order and receive the seeds.

Am I too late in the season to just kill my existing lawn then? If I mow at 1" should I use the whacker to try and get lower?

[virginiagal]

2-3 inches is a good depth for mulch around a tree. Just google "mulch around tree" and you will find lots of information.

I don't know where you live but mid to late August is the usual planting time for northern areas, especially for KBG which takes extra time to get going. If it turns out you have KBG, why not take just care of it for a couple of years, doing proper mowing, fertilizing, watering? In the fall it will probably look a lot better than it does now (summer is a hard time for cool season grasses). KBG will spread to fill in bare spots. Tttf and rye may need overseeding and it's much easier to do an overseeding with them. Have you figured out what kind of grass you have?

[JohnP]

Also I was debating on the RainBird Easy To Install sprinkler system if I did a full reno. I basically have 2 large rectangular areas (front, back) and a side. Hose hookup in both front and back so it wouldn't be hard to do make it happen and make life easier.

Here's a shot of my backyard weeds before I started spraying with the 2, 4-D.

[JohnP]

Virginigal I appreciate your responses. I will try to identify, I didn't have a chance when I was home earlier.

[JohnP]

Virginiagal, it seems to be fescue/rye currently. The seed bag I got from SSS is 60% KBG; 20% Fescue; 20% Rye.

Seeing as how I have the seed and the current time of year my options would be:
A) The plan as is. Largest potential for subpar results with the most potential for waste.
B) Nuke the lawn ASAP and prep for a full reno using the seed I have.
C) Seed bag has a best by of October 2017. Scrap that, do some sort of fall program to give me best middle ground for a grassy spring with minimal weeds and formulate a 2018 Reno plan.

Forgive my typos and autocorrect. I'm doing most of this from my phone.
B)

[virginiagal]

Can you return the seed? Do not nuke the yard. You just used a selective weed killer and the soonest you can seed after that is probably three weeks (read the label, call the company if it's not clear). I don't know where you live. If you're in the transition zone, seeding in early September is fine. If you're up north, September is too late for KBG but seeding fescue or rye would work. I looked up the seed you bought. The seeding rate is 4 lb/k. Overseeding rate is usually half of the seeding rate. However, KBG is not usually overseeded. For whatever seed you use, use the recommended rate. For overseeding, use the overseeding rate. Grass planted too thickly will die.

Your yard is small enough that you can probably set up hoses and sprinklers with a timer. The Rainbird system may work too. It says it can cover 1000-3000 square feet, so one for the front yard, one for the back could cover those spaces. I have no experience with it. See what you can do with hose and sprinkler. There are timers that will send water to one hose and then to another. You will need to water lightly several times a day at first. Later you reduce the frequency and increase the amount of water as the grass grows.

If what you have now is fescue and rye and you just killed lots of weeds, you should overseed to fill up the bare spots. You will have better success with fescue or rye. If you can't return the SSS seed, ask SSS how long the seed will be viable. Maybe you can use it next year if you decide to do a renovation then. Check with your local extension office to get recommendations on seeds. Your state's land grant college website likely has a lot of information on lawn care and it's geared for your region.

Tenacity is good to use at seeding. Read the directions several times. Use the protective gear recommended. Practice with your sprayer using plain water to see if you can spread a given amount of water over 1000 square feet. Measure accurately.

Have you been gradually reducing your height of cut? Do it gradually over the next few weeks. Don't go below one inch.

[PSU4ME]

Looks like there is a lot of ground ivy in there. Were you able to get rid of all of that?

As VA girl has stated, you'll have a tough time overseeding the kbg into your existing grass. While it takes 21-28 ish days to germinate, the other grass (new and old) will be growing and shading around it and likely out competing it. Not to mention you needing to mow and walking on that new sprout won't be good.

Will dome grow? Yes but set your expectation accordingly.

A soil test (Logan Labs if you want ST6 to read it) would be high on my list.

I assume you didn't put down a pre emergent at all this year?

[smast16]

Virginiagal, it seems to be fescue/rye currently. The seed bag I got from SSS is 60% KBG; 20% Fescue; 20% Rye.

Seeing as how I have the seed and the current time of year my options would be:
A) The plan as is. Largest potential for subpar results with the most potential for waste.
B) Nuke the lawn ASAP and prep for a full reno using the seed I have.
C) Seed bag has a best by of October 2017. Scrap that, do some sort of fall program to give me best middle ground for a grassy spring with minimal weeds and formulate a 2018 Reno plan.

Forgive my typos and autocorrect. I'm doing most of this from my phone.
B)

If you leave the seed bag in a cool / dry place like a basement, it'll be fine till next year.

You have a lot of weed pressure right now, and just think of all the seeds they've dropped into your soil over the last 10 years. When you start watering to germinate the grass seed, guess what else will germinate. A large amount of weeds germinating with your grass can and will suffocate out new grass seed. Read up on Fallowing.

Also, some weeds and grassy weeds will take 2-3 (if not more) applications of Glyphosate (Roundup) to kill em off (like the creeping charlie in the pictures)

With all of this in mind, i'd go for Option C. Spend the fall going through the weed triangle, and caring for the grass you have. Spend the winter reading about reno's, and learn about all the trials and tribulations that come with them. That way you'll be better prepared for when something happens, like a washout, instead of scrambling wondering what to do. Then in the spring decide on an action plan and execute. It's not just a quick swipe of roundup, drop seed, and then sit back and enjoy a nice yard.

Ps. I have hoses on timers as well. I think the fallowing period was really important for me, so i could really spend the time honing and fine tuning sprinkler options and coverage.

[JohnP]

No pre emergent.

I have my sprayer settings down, used the driveway to practice with bricks as "weeds".

I have a lot of die off currently but still a fair amount of weeds. The backyard last treatment was Aug 15 (Triclopyr) and still has plenty of weeds left (nutsedge specially). It was too dark when I got back home last night for a clear updated picture. Will nab one this afternoon.

Haven't adjusted mower. At 3", though maybe the weeds are my fault maybe I should've been mowing at 4"?

[JohnP]

ETA: My Ego mower cuts in 1" increments between 1" and 6". No 3.5" or half inch stepping for me.

[JohnP]

So plenty of brown in the back, but still plenty of jerks hanging out. Here's a photo of the back. It's had most time since Stage 2. It hasn't been cut since August 8th. Dunno if the triangle method shocked it. The oak tree hanging over is getting trimmed back once the ground is frozen, which means next year will bring even more sun to the rest of the yard.

[virginiagal]

Assuming you have fescue and/or rye, I would be inclined to overseed with tttf this fall, using Tenacity at seed down. You have made a big improvement with the weeds. You could go around with glyphosate and spot spray stragglers right before seeding. If you did triclopyr on August 12 for the backyard, you could seed Labor Day weekend. The front yard could be seeded the next weekend. TTTF will come up in 1-2 weeks and would fill in the holes left by the dead weeds. If you don't have grass there, weeds will fill in again. You will still have some weeds with the new grass but you can attack them later. You can do a follow-up Tenacity application (Tenacity works on creeping Charlie). Be sure to use a pre-emergent in the spring.

For an overseeding, try to hold off on the fertilizer until the new grass comes up. Nitrogen will make the existing grass grow faster and you'd like it to grow slowly while the seed germinates.

I'm not good at identifying grass in pictures. It did seem like I saw some center veins, which could mean KBG or rye. Rye has a sharp point, KBG has a boat shaped point. Maybe someone else can identify the grass in your pictures. A common northern mix is to have KBG, fescue, and rye. If you do have KBG, you may not need to overseed. KBG will spread to fill in bare spots.

Still don't know where you live!

[PSU4ME]

Still don't know where you live!

Cedar Rapids, Iowa I believe