Spread more seed... or ride it out? - NoNet Fescue

[bpgreen]

Sorry, maybe we are misunderstanding each other.

I'm not sure if your comment that we are misunderstanding each other is aimed at me or at one of the others who have replied on the thread, but I don't think it makes much difference. I understand you, and from the other responses, so does everybody else. As I look back at some earlier posts, I see that my phone autocorrected "If you click the link . . ." to "Of you click the link . . ." so if that's the cause of the miscommunication, I apologize.

I’m just ranting now, but I’m as surprised by this as anybody else may be

I don't think anybody else is surprised by this. It's common practice for a seed company to come up with a brand for a bag of seeds and change what goes into the bag based on availability, locale, or some other reason or reasons known only to them. This is nothing new. Go to Walmart and find a bag of Scotts Sun and Shade. Take a picture of the part of the labels that shows the seed composition. Then go to Lowes and do the same, then to Home Depot. Maybe even check a couple of labels at each store. If they're all the same, wait and check again next year.

Jacklin has two (at least) cultivars of TTTF seeds that they claim are rhizomatous (I say claim, because I've seen other claims of rhizomatous tall fescue in the past and have been disappointed; but that was years ago, and it's possible that selective breeding has really come through). They're marketing these seeds primarily to sod growers, and selling them as NoNet, meaning that there's no need to use nylon netting as a stabilizer until the sod is formed, since the fescue will spread to form sod.

So if you buy NoNet, you're getting Flame and/or Sunlight.

Are you sure that Sunlight and Flame are cultivars that are already available? I've done some cursory searches and haven't found them in anything but references to the Jacklin NoNet product. I looked at the most recent NTEP report I could find and didn't see either listed, but there were several entries for Jacklin that were numbered, rather than named (like JS 818) and I'd imagine that two of those were named Flame and Sunlight.

[Leakytires]

I don't know how to work the quote functions very well so please forgive me.

bpgreen said,

I'm not sure if your comment that we are misunderstanding each other is aimed at me or at one of the others who have replied on the thread

I Thought that maybe we were misunderstanding each other.

I don't think anybody else is surprised by this. It's common practice for a seed company to come up with a brand for a bag of seeds and change what goes into the bag based on availability, locale, or some other reason or reasons known only to them. This is nothing new. Go to Walmart and find a bag of Scotts Sun and Shade. Take a picture of the part of the labels that shows the seed composition. Then go to Lowes and do the same, then to Home Depot. Maybe even check a couple of labels at each store. If they're all the same, wait and check again next year.

All of those products clearly state that they are mixes or blends.

So if you buy NoNet, you're getting Flame and/or Sunlight.

That is not stated on the Jacklin tech sheet or on United Seeds’ website.

Are you sure that Sunlight and Flame are cultivars that are already available? I've done some cursory searches and haven't found them in anything but references to the Jacklin NoNet product. I looked at the most recent NTEP report I could find and didn't see either listed, but there were several entries for Jacklin that were numbered, rather than named (like JS 818) and I'd imagine that two of those were named Flame and Sunlight.

The link you gave me from the EIGCA says that they are available in Europe. I too checked the NTEP site and could not find any instances of NoNet, Flame, or Sunlight.

I had made another post before this one, I hope it turns up soon.

[Green]

Going to jump back in here again...

So if you buy NoNet, you're getting Flame and/or Sunlight.

Interesting that the other cultivar is called Sunlight. How did you figure that out? I googled for it and couldn't find any mention of it.

I looked at the most recent NTEP report I could find and didn't see either listed, but there were several entries for Jacklin that were numbered, rather than named (like JS 818) and I'd imagine that two of those were named Flame and Sunlight.

Supposedly (if I got the story right...I heard it from multiple sources in the seed industry) Jacklin decided not to enter these cultivars into the NTEP. So, "JS 818" is probably not Flame or Sunlight.

[appalachianturf]

Jacklin is notorious for renaming varities already in existence. Some of their midnight types are simply that. Midnight. Genetically the same with a new name. As for adding seed too soon this is how a turf breeder explained it to me. If an elevator is rated for 10 people yet 20 of us can fit does that mean it's a good idea? No.. there is a reason for the 10 rating. When you see a seedling remember it's just that a seedling. It will someday be 4-6" in diameter and fill in. If one keeps adding seed we end up with the overloaded elevator syndrome. I personally feel this is where we see all the disease as the plant matures. They need room once they are mature.

[smast16]

So if you buy NoNet, you're getting Flame and/or Sunlight.

That is not stated on the Jacklin tech sheet or on United Seeds’ website.

Going to chime in here real quick. "NoNet" with this spelling (IE no Space) is a registered trademark, and if you zoom in on the logo, it's says "brand" in the logo. So it reads "NoNet Brand".



NoNet just appears to be jacklins marketing term for their "Rhizomatic tall fescue" probably in an effort to better compete in the marketing world with Titan.

[Leakytires]

So if you buy NoNet, you're getting Flame and/or Sunlight.

That is not stated on the Jacklin tech sheet or on United Seeds’ website.

Going to chime in here real quick. "NoNet" with this spelling (IE no Space) is a registered trademark, and if you zoom in on the logo, it's says "brand" in the logo. So it reads "NoNet Brand".

Thanks, I didn't see that.

NoNet just appears to be jacklins marketing term for their "Rhizomatic tall fescue" probably in an effort to better compete in the marketing world with Titan.

I sincerely appreciate your opinion; that just may be how Jacklin gets past legal hurdles necessary to market their product that way, but I may not be the only potential consumer to think that Jacklin is taking a fairly devious approach to marketing.

[Marinegrunt]

This reminds me of a type a local sod company sells as sod and seed called RTF Watersaver. If you google it some make it sound as if RTF is the specific cultivar and others say it's a blend of rhizomatous tall fescue. The local sod company makes it sound as it's a TTTF cultivar which spreads via rhizomes.

This places are going to market it in a way that brings in the most money and to heck with the customer.

[Leakytires]

smast16 wrote:

NoNet just appears to be jacklins marketing term for their "Rhizomatic tall fescue" probably in an effort to better compete in the marketing world with Titan.

Does Titan not disclose to its customers the actual cultivars or varieties of seed they are selling as “Titan”?

[hmc610]

Well I did a backyard renovation with Nonet last year
I was really happy with it till brown patch hit it and hit it hard. I didn't do any preventive fungus control due to building a new home so I kind of let the yard go this past summer.

[smast16]

smast16 wrote:

NoNet just appears to be jacklins marketing term for their "Rhizomatic tall fescue" probably in an effort to better compete in the marketing world with Titan.

Does Titan not disclose to its customers the actual cultivars or varieties of seed they are selling as “Titan”?

Well yes and no, Yes: Titan is a variety, but they dont sell you 100% Titan so, no. Last fall i fell victim to the marketing, and went with titan Rx. I thought i was getting a 50# bag of Titan seed. Nope. I got a bag of 9.8% "Titan" and the other 90% were random varieties they included in that years mix.

[Leakytires]

Well I did a backyard renovation with Nonet last year
I was really happy with it till brown patch hit it and hit it hard. I didn't do any preventive fungus control due to building a new home so I kind of let the yard go this past summer.

Was that NoNet the cultivar or NoNet the brand, that may have been a bag of seed containing NoNet, Flame, or any other kind of seed?

[Leakytires]

Well yes and no, Yes: Titan is a variety, but they dont sell you 100% Titan so, no. Last fall i fell victim to the marketing, and went with titan Rx. I thought i was getting a 50# bag of Titan seed. Nope. I got a bag of 9.8% "Titan" and the other 90% were random varieties they included in that years mix.

Thanks for responding. That’s very interesting, as the spouse of someone who has worked in the marketing departments of two fortune 500 companies, I’m really surprised by the marketing trickery that seems to going on in the grass seed industry.

[PW405]

Well I did a backyard renovation with Nonet last year
I was really happy with it till brown patch hit it and hit it hard. I didn't do any preventive fungus control due to building a new home so I kind of let the yard go this past summer.

I'll have to keep that mind. I'm at day 20 since seed down and the last 7 days have been pretty slow, but it finally seems to be hitting a growth spurt. Did you notice any self-repair ability following the brown patch? Since my climate can be pretty harsh (for cold season turf), I chose this type really more for durability and some (hopeful) ability to self-repair.

[Green]

Just jumping in...

Tall Fescue in general is notorious for Brown Patch susceptibility...that shouldn't be a knock against No-Net in particular. As an aside, I've also found it very susceptible to Snow Mold.

[PW405]

Just jumping in...

Tall Fescue in general is notorious for Brown Patch susceptibility...that shouldn't be a knock against No-Net in particular. As an aside, I've also found it very susceptible to Snow Mold.

Brown patch I think I'm a likely candidate for given the extreme humidity of our summers. Snow mold, on the other hand, is pretty rare as far as I know. How long do you need to have snow covered turf for snow mold to start being a risk factor?

[smast16]

I just want to add a picture showing the movement of the Titan RTF.

This area was killed in this summer (mid July) on accident as i didn't properly clean the Glyphosate out of the sprayer want properly (lessen to be learned here ). You can see the RTF moving in, as well as some KBG.



Now it's been hot and dry since July for me (although i do irrigate when needed), and this area has only received 1# of nitrogen since May. You MIGHT see a little better spreading if it's rainier and has more nitrogen. I've also been hitting this area with Fusilade II in an attempt to get rid of the Bermuda.

[hmc610]

Well I did a backyard renovation with Nonet last year
I was really happy with it till brown patch hit it and hit it hard. I didn't do any preventive fungus control due to building a new home so I kind of let the yard go this past summer.

I'll have to keep that mind. I'm at day 20 since seed down and the last 7 days have been pretty slow, but it finally seems to be hitting a growth spurt. Did you notice any self-repair ability following the brown patch? Since my climate can be pretty harsh (for cold season turf), I chose this type really more for durability and some (hopeful) ability to self-repair.

Well it is starting to look a lot better since fall has started but so far I have not seen any "self repair". Up till it was hit with brown patch the lawn was very dark green and thick. Was hard to get the self propelled mower through it.

[hmc610]

Well I did a backyard renovation with Nonet last year
I was really happy with it till brown patch hit it and hit it hard. I didn't do any preventive fungus control due to building a new home so I kind of let the yard go this past summer.

I'll have to keep that mind. I'm at day 20 since seed down and the last 7 days have been pretty slow, but it finally seems to be hitting a growth spurt. Did you notice any self-repair ability following the brown patch? Since my climate can be pretty harsh (for cold season turf), I chose this type really more for durability and some (hopeful) ability to self-repair.

Well it is starting to look a lot better since fall has started but so far I have not seen any "self repair". Up till it was hit with brown patch the lawn was very dark green and thick. Was hard to get the self propelled mower through it.

[PW405]

I ultimately decided not to spread more seed.

I am likely being paranoid, but I wanted to get some opinions on the areas I've circled here. Notice how the tips are curling & turning white? I mowed and dropped urea at a low rate (1.75 lbs of 46-0-0 over 2,500/ft) on Saturday. Had 0.5" of rain followed by fairly cool temps (45-65°). Also spread SOP at 2lbs/K.

With the wild-n-whacky weather this year, I'm concerned that disease risk is high. I blindly sprayed propicozanole before seed down. Now I'm thinking..

...could this be pythum blight? Fertilizer burn? OH THE HUMANITY! Not my poor baby grass! (27 days since seed down).

Note - I have not observed any mycelium growth/cobweb spots on the grass.



Any thoughts?

[andy10917]

Go have a bourbon and stop obsessing.