Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Kentucky bluegrass, Fescue, Rye and Bent, etc
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Mattsbay18
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Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Mattsbay18 » October 2nd, 2017, 1:40 pm

I've been fighting crabgrass for the entire season and have failed. I used the Ortho weed control plus crabgrass control which was ineffective. I have since purchased Tenacity and Quinkill with the thought of using Tenacity as a pre-emergent and Quinkill as a post emergent.

Should I continue my crabgrass fight this fall or should I save my herbicide for next year?

Thanks,
Matt

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probasesteal
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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by probasesteal » October 2nd, 2017, 3:09 pm

You've lost this year, give up the fight. Put down a pre-emergent in the spring.

Do you have decent grass mixed in with the crabgrass currently?

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by RockinMyLawn » October 2nd, 2017, 3:11 pm

Mattsbay18 wrote:
October 2nd, 2017, 1:40 pm
I've been fighting crabgrass for the entire season and have failed. I used the Ortho weed control plus crabgrass control which was ineffective. I have since purchased Tenacity and Quinkill with the thought of using Tenacity as a pre-emergent and Quinkill as a post emergent.

Should I continue my crabgrass fight this fall or should I save my herbicide for next year?

Thanks,
Matt
For me it came down to how my overall lawn's 'depth' looked.
If my lawn was thin & & weak, I'd spend time in the fall to feed & overseed - when the weather is most conducive to these type of activity.

I would then fight the crabgrass in the spring when I have a smaller window for feeding & seeding.

Luckily - you have Tenacity - which WILL allow you to put it down as a Pre_M @ the same time as dropping seed.
While using it as a Post_M later on - I believe 30 days out after seeding.

Either way, this is the best time in my opinion to GROW grass.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by PSU4ME » October 2nd, 2017, 3:22 pm

Are you not able to kill it or are you unable to manage it - as in you can kill it but 3 more pop up for every one you kill?

Crabgrass is pretty "easy" to kill and manage because there are some pretty good herbicides out there but i will say that you need to have a good program in place to be successful.

At this time, given that CG will die when the frost hits, throw in the towel and be ready next year with a good preM like mentioned above.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Mattsbay18 » October 2nd, 2017, 3:22 pm

I do. And that's why I was thinking about ending my fight.


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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by ken-n-nancy » October 2nd, 2017, 4:37 pm

Mattsbay18 wrote:
October 2nd, 2017, 1:40 pm
... the thought of using Tenacity as a pre-emergent and Quinkill as a post emergent.
For post-emergent on crabgrass, quinclorac is the way to go. I use Drive XLR8 (quinclorac), of which Quinkill appears to be an equivalent product. Crabgrass requires a surfactant for the herbicide to be effective. The standard recommendation is to use Methylated Seed Oil (MSO) with quinclorac. I have been substituting NIS with good results. You are likely to not have good results if you skip the use of a surfactant with the quinclorac.

Tenacity is not as long-lived or effective of a pre-emergent as a more typical pre-emergent, such as prodiamine. The benefit of Tenacity is that it can be used at the same time that desirable grasses are seeded, which is not the case for conventional pre-emergents. If you are not doing a spring seeding, then you'll be better off with a conventional pre-emergent such as prodiamine (Barricade) or dithiopyr (Dimension).

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Green » October 2nd, 2017, 9:11 pm

When do you think you'll get frost? CG doesn't usually last beyond the first 2-3 frosts.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Green » October 2nd, 2017, 9:56 pm

Btw, assuming you're using Dimension, I'd strongly consider going moderate to heavy on the pre-M in the Spring, and possibly doing split apps too, so it will last the entire Summer. Also, make sure you get the first app down a few weeks early if anything. I can't speak for Prodiamine...I've only used it in the Fall, mainly for Poa annua, but I know it has a longer residual than Dimension.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Marinegrunt » October 2nd, 2017, 10:47 pm

One thing that was mentioned in a similar thread was to make sure you have a long term plan. If you end up with a bunch of bare spots once the crabgrass is gone and, and up wanting to over seed in the fall, a spring pre m might not allow it.

I know you said you do have desirable grass within the crabgrass but it's just something to keep in mind.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by probasesteal » October 3rd, 2017, 10:59 am

Marinegrunt wrote:
October 2nd, 2017, 10:47 pm
One thing that was mentioned in a similar thread was to make sure you have a long term plan. If you end up with a bunch of bare spots once the crabgrass is gone and, and up wanting to over seed in the fall, a spring pre m might not allow it.

I know you said you do have desirable grass within the crabgrass but it's just something to keep in mind.
Good info, but if crabgrass is significant you are better off preventing it and reseeding in the fall. Spring overseed with crabgrass and tons of other broadleaf is a nightmare scenario. Unless of course you think, "oh well, it's green".. but that is not anyone on this site.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Marinegrunt » October 3rd, 2017, 1:20 pm

probasesteal wrote:
October 3rd, 2017, 10:59 am
Marinegrunt wrote:
October 2nd, 2017, 10:47 pm
One thing that was mentioned in a similar thread was to make sure you have a long term plan. If you end up with a bunch of bare spots once the crabgrass is gone and, and up wanting to over seed in the fall, a spring pre m might not allow it.

I know you said you do have desirable grass within the crabgrass but it's just something to keep in mind.
Good info, but if crabgrass is significant you are better off preventing it and reseeding in the fall. Spring overseed with crabgrass and tons of other broadleaf is a nightmare scenario. Unless of course you think, "oh well, it's green".. but that is not anyone on this site.
If you want to seed in the fall don't you have to be careful with the pre m in the spring? Depending on when you apply it and, at what strength, isn't there a chance you won't be able to over seed in the fall because of the barrier? Take Dimension for example, isn't the heavy rate good for like 8 months? I guess that's what I was thinking when I mentioned having a long-term plan. I probably should've went into more detail. I was thinking that if you want to seed in the fall you have to watch how you apply the pre m in the spring. Maybe I'm just not understanding something though.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Green » October 3rd, 2017, 9:05 pm

Marine: I don't know if anyone uses the really heavy rate. 11 lbs/K is a lot of Dimension. I wouldn't want to find out what that would do to a lawn or the environment. When I say moderate to heavy rate, I'm talking 4-6 lbs/K of a 0.15% granular product in total, preferably split up into at least 2 apps: one at Forsythia bloom, and another in mid Summer. But yes, you would potentially have to watch out and check your calculations if overseeding in the Fall. 4 lbs/K has been more than sufficient in my experience, with low crabgrass pressure. I'd use a bit more if I had heavy pressure.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by probasesteal » October 3rd, 2017, 9:32 pm

I've just used the bag rate of dimension, no problems with overseeding.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Green » October 3rd, 2017, 10:10 pm

What bag rate? There is a wide range of bag rates.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Marinegrunt » October 4th, 2017, 8:00 am

Gotcha. That makes sense. I've just seen a lot of posts in the past by people who had used a pre m in the spring and ended up having to do a real late over seed. I guess there are many different pre emergents with differemt lengths of protection. I'm sure in some of those posts it was applied later than ideal or even into summer.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by 73Chall » October 12th, 2017, 4:36 am

Matts, I’ll just throw in here that, 3 going on 4 years of trying to maintain what was a professionally maintained lawn has really, REALLY shown me that it is better to do SPLIT APPS of pre-emergent with the first way earlier than forsythia bloom (!!!), another at the “normal” time (I guess I’ll say forsythia bloom) and then another, depending upon rain, soil disturbance, etc., etc.
Trial and error have shown me CG is just too tough an enemy and too big a problem once it rears it’s ugly head to “count on” just one app., heavy or not. Too many factors such as too much rain or what have you for me to rely on one app and your CG situation sounds worse than mine (or about as bad as my poa annua fight but, I’ll take poa over CG any day! ;-)

Best o’ Success!

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Maizan24 » October 12th, 2017, 7:14 am

Green wrote:
October 2nd, 2017, 9:56 pm
Btw, assuming you're using Dimension, I'd strongly consider going moderate to heavy on the pre-M in the Spring, and possibly doing split apps too, so it will last the entire Summer. Also, make sure you get the first app down a few weeks early if anything. I can't speak for Prodiamine...I've only used it in the Fall, mainly for Poa annua, but I know it has a longer residual than Dimension.
I can attest to doing a split pre m app. I tried it this year. I put down an app mid March then again mid may. The difference between this year and last year was amazing. Not saying i had no crabgrass this year but it was a plant here and a plant there as opposed to last year which was just a nightmare. I really didn't see any until August which was probably around the time the effectiveness of the dimension was winding down. Good luck whichever route you choose.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by ryeguy » October 16th, 2017, 1:56 pm

This study (pdf) found that split apps were superior for crabgrass control to one-time apps even when amount was equated. They also used prodiamine (aka barricade), pendimethalin (aka scotts halts or others), and dithiopyr (aka dimension) in both combos and standalone and found that all of them had about the same level of control.

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Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by Green » October 16th, 2017, 7:07 pm

I didn't read it. But it makes sense that split apps were superior...as others mentioned, there are lots of factors that could reduce the length of a single application.

free_safety

Re: Fight the crabgrass or save my battle for spring

Post by free_safety » October 30th, 2017, 8:22 pm

Crabgrass should be dead by now but dont leave the dead crabgrass. Pull it by the roots and plant grass seed in all the bare spots

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