Advice for New Member in Northern California

[Bearded4Glory]

Hello everyone!

I recently signed up after reading a lot on here over the last 6 months or so. In October I overseaded the majority (roughtly 800SF) of my fairly small yard and did a full renovation on another area (roughly 400SF). I used a blend of Kentucky Bluegrass with some fine/chewing/hard fescue for shade tolerance as my yard is boxed in on 3 sides with fairly large trees. I am seeing fairly decent results although the grass is very slow going. It took about 6 weeks to have my first mow on the renovation and even then most of the grass wasn't actually getting cut.

My main question is what should I do to convert the advice that has been provided for different areas of the country so that I maximize my potential here in the San Francisco Bay Area? A lot of the information is in terms of first frost or other milestone dates based on temperature that are at very different times here. I just took the soil temperature and I am currently at 46 Degrees. Depending on the source my first frost date is either nonexistent or mid December (322 day growing season). One thing that I am noticing is that while my grass is still slowly growing it has slowed significantly due to the shorter days.

Any specific tips would be great. Trying to nail down when to put down Pre-M (currently thinking January 1st and a 2nd app February 1st) as well as when to stop my fall nitrogen (putting down 1/2lb/K twice a month) maybe that time is now as I have seen much less growth this week when compared to last week.

Thanks in advance and thanks for everyone's great guides and information.

[HoosierLawnGnome]

Good job on recognizing how different your climate is then a lot of the posts here. Keep that in mind as you read them. Likewise, we need to take into account your locale when making recommendations! Always one of the first things to check!

You are lucky, in that San Fran is a pretty moderate climate year 'round. Ergo, your season is much different than others on the site with cool season turf species. You don't have a winter - you have a month or so of slow growth.

So, your climate is more like the transition zone - but not really that. The transition zone on this site typically refers to the middle of the country in the midwest to eastern US, like KY, parts of VA, TN, etc - and those often get a little snow and real growth stoppage at some point.

You have more of a sod growers climate Your turf is growing all year and you have moderate temps all year.

One thing I'd do is take a soil test with Logan Labs per the instructions on the site here when the turf starts growing again, but before you start applying fertilizer. Do the free soil structure test in the soil management article as well, or pay to have LL do it for a little more.

Learn to start looking at the turf for timing of things, not the calendar. Over time you'll learn what the general cycle is for you, but everyone's is a little different.

With such a long growing season, keeping a pre-emergent barrier down is more of a challenge. I would look into doing split applications of prodiamine (Barricade) as it has the longest period of coverage, and doing split applictions will help keep weeds out in those final months compared to the full application at the start of the season. For timing, it's normally suggested 'when the forsythia blooms' rather than a specific calendar date. The gddtracker site may help you in getting a sense of that date, but rely on your eyes and what is happening in your yard foremost.

On 1200 s.f., you could probably hand pull weeds, or use extremely minimal herbicides using only a squirt bottle. Spray iron applications would also be a great way to keep it as green as possible.

A good mower and edger / trimmer will go a long ways to making it really pop too. Clean lines are a big plus aesthetically, and would only take a few minutes with a battery powered edger or trimmer after a mow to keep very clean and tight lines along sidewalks and any beds you may have.

[HoosierLawnGnome]

Oh, and irrigation. You can hand water 1200 s.f., or set up a sprinkler system - very, very handy.

The general rule of thumb is 1 in a week all at once.

Here's a very iteresting thought too

You could set up a few rain collection barrels and an inexpensive, solar-powered pump to water your turf with. Rain water is free and better than city water May impress your eco-minded neighbors as well

An inch of water on 1200 s.f. is ~62 gallons, so you don't need a ton of storage there.

Keep an eye out for San Francisco-specific regulations on watering and lawn products to use as well.

[ken-n-nancy]

You could set up a few rain collection barrels and an inexpensive, solar-powered pump to water your turf with. Rain water is free and better than city water May impress your eco-minded neighbors as well

An inch of water on 1200 s.f. is ~62 gallons, so you don't need a ton of storage there.

I like the idea of rain collection for watering turf, but it will take a lot more than ~62 gallons. (I'm not sure how HLG came up with that number...)

Let's do the calculation of volume of water needed to cover 1200 sqft to a depth of 1 inch of water...

1200 sqft * 1 inch * (1 foot / 12 inches) = 100 cubic feet.

Google's converter (type "100 cubic feet in gallons" into a google search window) says that 100 cubic feet = 748 gallons.

So, using rain collected water is a good idea, but it's going to take ~750 gallons of water each week.

PS: For future reference or for others that are reading in, it takes 623 gallons of water to provide 1" of irrigation to 1000sqft of turf.

[HoosierLawnGnome]

Yep, I completely botched that calculation! Thanks for the correction!!!!!

[andy10917]

Google's converter (type "100 cubic feet in gallons" into a google search window) says that 100 cubic feet = 748 gallons.

So, using rain collected water is a good idea, but it's going to take ~750 gallons of water each week.

Notice the 2 gallon difference. This is not a mistake - this accounts for the water used to make ice cubes for "adult beverages" during the irrigation work period.

[Green]

Someone from your area visited a couple of months ago, and I was asking about the climate. They said that where they are, it rarely goes below 40F in the Winter, and rarely above 75F in the Summer. They never use their air conditioning most years.

Sounds like perfect weather for cool-season grass!

[Bearded4Glory]

Thank you guys for the replies. I forgot to mention that I do have in ground irrigation and have gotten it to be fairly even across the lawn during last summer. I also forgot to mention that I did send out some soil to Logan this past weekend. I was hoping to wait for spring but I have some moss issues and I wanted to see what the soil PH is looking like. I have never had a soil test so it will be interesting to see what the soil is like. I have some Moss Out on the way to throw down to try and get rid of the moss, unfortunately I couldn't find anything in the big box stores locally I need to search out a better supplier for things like Urea but I haven't had a chance yet.

I have quite a bit of clover coming in on the Renovation side and what I think is Poa in a few areas on the over seeded side. I have some Tenacity that I have been gun shy about putting down but I think I need to do that to make sure they don't start overtaking the lawn.

I do have a battery powered trimmer that works really well and I am using a Scotts reel mower for mowing. I picked up the mower used and it took a few tries to get it tuned right but now it leaves nice clean cuts and pushes almost effortlessly.

Here is a picture of the mower after our last outing. The grass is a little darker in the photo (the power of photoshop) but that is the overseaded side, you can see some of the lighter areas towards the tree I think that is the Poa. I will take some better photos to get confirmation but it is lighter in color and is growing taller than the surrounding grass.


Andy, you are the fall nitrogen expert. Any suggestions? Continue straight through with 1#/K per month if I continue to see growth?

[andy10917]

You don't have a Fall that leads to a real winter, so the whole Regimen thing is out the window. I'd ease up some if growth slows. In a 12-month growing season, a lb a month would be 12 lbs/yr -- that's pretty heavy if you're not an absolute nutjob (I know one well). I'd reduce the amount per app, or cut out some apps at times when growth isn't crazy.

[Bearded4Glory]

Someone from your area visited a couple of months ago, and I was asking about the climate. They said that where they are, it rarely goes below 40F in the Winter, and rarely above 75F in the Summer. They never use their air conditioning most years.

Sounds like perfect weather for cool-season grass!

Yep, the climate is great. The traffic and over crowding are getting a little out of control but that is the price we pay to live here. We will drop below the frost point a few times a winter usually and in the summer we will probably have a weeks worth of 100 degree days but for the majority of the year it is between 60 and 75.

My yard is a little screwy, the trees are located so that in the summer I get full sun coverage but during fall/winter I get very little sun. Really has been throwing me for a loop but I am going to try to prune some of the trees a little bit more to try to get more light to the lawn during the shorter fall/winter days.

You don't have a Fall that leads to a real winter, so the whole Regimen thing is out the window. I'd ease up some if growth slows. In a 12-month growing season, a lb a month would be 12 lbs/yr -- that's pretty heavy if you're not an absolute nutjob (I know one well). I'd reduce the amount per app, or cut out some apps at times when growth isn't crazy.

Sounds reasonable, I appreciate the reply. My pocket book will probably appreciate a little less nitrogen as well! And I thought I was going to save money by doing my own yard maintenance...Oops!

[Bearded4Glory]

Testing to see if I have added the image property. Everyone, don't laugh too hard.

[andy10917]

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[Green]

Mediterranean climate...

How much does Milorganite cost you out there? Here it's up to $15-16 per bag this year. Most of the cost of it above the base $7-8, is supposedly transportation cost, btw. Members in the Midwest get it for half what we get it here.

[Bearded4Glory]

Score:
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I have actually failed twice now, I tried to post the same photo in an earlier post but it didn't work then either. Does this forum just not like images from Broken image or something?

Mediterranean climate...

How much does Milorganite cost you out there? Here it's up to $15-16 per bag this year. Most of the cost of it above the base $7-8, is supposedly transportation cost, btw. Members in the Midwest get it for half what we get it here.

I just picked some up for $13.50 at Home Depot. Luckily my yard is small so I get two bag rate apps out of a bag so the cost isn't a huge factor for me. The less fortunate part of having a small yard is that some things don't come in small enough quantities. I was looking at prodiamine as HoosierLawnGnome recommended it but one 5lb jug will last me 160 years of 0.5oz/k per year applications as recommended. Hopefully medical advances will let me live long enough to use 1/2 of it or maybe I need a bigger yard at my next place.




Finally my mower gets a little recognition on here...

[Green]

You must do some photography...that doesn't look like a composition that the average camera user would make accidentally, and the focus point is nailed right on the mower's front wheel, too.

[Bearded4Glory]

You must do some photography...that doesn't look like a composition that the average camera user would make accidentally, and the focus point is nailed right on the mower's front wheel, too.

Thanks! I picked myself up a new camera on sale for Black Friday so I have been enjoying that quite a bit. My old D40 from almost 10 years ago wasn't cutting it anymore. I am a hack but I have fun with it.

[Bearded4Glory]

Ok, got the soil report back. TBH I don't know what the heck I am looking at. Andy I know you are hibernating for the winter, any chance I could coerce you into giving me some recommendations? The first thing I notice is my PH is low. Looks like I need to find some Lime. Anything in particular I am looking for?




Thanks in advance!

[Green]

Thanks! I picked myself up a new camera on sale for Black Friday so I have been enjoying that quite a bit. My old D40 from almost 10 years ago wasn't cutting it anymore. I am a hack but I have fun with it.

The Nikon D40 arguably has one of the best image sensors ever made, in many ways. It can't compete with today's offerings in terms of low-light performance, though. Hope you're enjoying the new camera, whatever it is.

[Bearded4Glory]

Thanks! I picked myself up a new camera on sale for Black Friday so I have been enjoying that quite a bit. My old D40 from almost 10 years ago wasn't cutting it anymore. I am a hack but I have fun with it.

The Nikon D40 arguably has one of the best image sensors ever made, in many ways. It can't compete with today's offerings in terms of low-light performance, though. Hope you're enjoying the new camera, whatever it is.

Upgraded to a D750. Quite a jump but you are right that D40 served me well for such a long time. I gave it to my GF so she can get her feet wet with photography. Still getting used to the new control layout on the new camera but low light performance is amazing and overall the build quality really surprised me. I didn't realize there was that big of a difference between the consumer and prosumer/full frame bodies. I am sure it will last me a really long time.

[Green]

That's an excellent upgrade. The D750 is a mature product. They went through the D600 and D610 first, and that first one had issues. Looking forward to seeing more yard photos taken with it next year.