Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
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Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
So, I’d like to open up a thread on how milorganite is different feom alfalfa pellets.
My understanding is that they basically do the same thing except that alfalfa pellets has more OM ...or at least more cost efficient per the amount.
Is that the extent to it or is there more to it then that?
I found an older thread from 2015 talki g about how alfalfa pellets have some sort of T word growth regulator in it... which is cool but i just went wayyyy over the 20# per k reccome dation and I’m actively trying to fetmy kbg to spread.
Is this true? Does it only prevent top growth? Did i even put enough down to be effective?
I also posted here and not the organic section because Milo was stripped of its looselytermed organic label...
Also, theres something soooooo much more satisfying about putting the spreader at full bore and dumping 100#’s of pellets all over the yard... is it just me ?
Theres something far more satisfying about
My understanding is that they basically do the same thing except that alfalfa pellets has more OM ...or at least more cost efficient per the amount.
Is that the extent to it or is there more to it then that?
I found an older thread from 2015 talki g about how alfalfa pellets have some sort of T word growth regulator in it... which is cool but i just went wayyyy over the 20# per k reccome dation and I’m actively trying to fetmy kbg to spread.
Is this true? Does it only prevent top growth? Did i even put enough down to be effective?
I also posted here and not the organic section because Milo was stripped of its looselytermed organic label...
Also, theres something soooooo much more satisfying about putting the spreader at full bore and dumping 100#’s of pellets all over the yard... is it just me ?
Theres something far more satisfying about
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
I used alfalfa before I found milorganite. Lawn really seemed to like it. Of course the horses next door kept looking at me funny.... Depending on Milo availability next year I might go to an alternating plan. My issue with alfalfa is that I can't fit a full rate applications worth of the stuff in a single truck load.
- andy10917
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
Where to start? Where to start?
There are a bunch of subjects to discuss here, and some contradict others - and the more you learn, the more you see the contradictions...
First of all, trying to convert many raw natural nutrients like alfalfa, soybean meal, etc to NPK equivalents isn't a great idea - there are other factors to consider -- like the status of the microherd and soil, variances in the nutrients in the products, etc that don't factor into the equation with factory-controlled manufacturing of synthetic fertilizers.
And then there is the presence of other "ingredients" in some natural products. With alfalfa, it's what you're calling the "T word". That's Triacontanol, an extremely potent plant growth regulator (promoter). Triacontanol is active at rates as low as 1 PPM. BUT, you absolutely cannot take a "if some is good, more is even better" approach to its use. At around 20 lbs/K of alfalfa applied, the activity peaks and then falls off. Heavy overapplication loses all of the value of Triacontanol. It's similar to hormones - the effective amounts are measured in millionths and billionths. Trust me on this - I have been studying phytohormones and auxins for a decade.
In real world measurements, 20 lbs/K is the sweet spot for Triacontanol effects from alfalfa, and applications should be around 4 weeks apart.
Now, when looking for straight NPK values (remember I said earlier that it isn't an apples-to-apples thing), alfalfa is 3-1-3. That means that to get 1 lb/K of Nitrogen or Potassium, you'll need 33 lbs/K of alfalfa applied, and for Phosphorus you'll need 100 lbs/K to get the 1 lb/K number. But at those numbers, you'll be beyond the point where the Triacontanol value is falling. Contradiction.
I'm also suspicious of your math for your "cost/value" calculation. If you want 1 lb/K of the NPK's, you'll be applying 33 lbs/K of alfalfa. At $15 per 50 lb bag, your cost is just short of $10 per K. So is Milorganite at $19 a bag.
There are a bunch of subjects to discuss here, and some contradict others - and the more you learn, the more you see the contradictions...
First of all, trying to convert many raw natural nutrients like alfalfa, soybean meal, etc to NPK equivalents isn't a great idea - there are other factors to consider -- like the status of the microherd and soil, variances in the nutrients in the products, etc that don't factor into the equation with factory-controlled manufacturing of synthetic fertilizers.
And then there is the presence of other "ingredients" in some natural products. With alfalfa, it's what you're calling the "T word". That's Triacontanol, an extremely potent plant growth regulator (promoter). Triacontanol is active at rates as low as 1 PPM. BUT, you absolutely cannot take a "if some is good, more is even better" approach to its use. At around 20 lbs/K of alfalfa applied, the activity peaks and then falls off. Heavy overapplication loses all of the value of Triacontanol. It's similar to hormones - the effective amounts are measured in millionths and billionths. Trust me on this - I have been studying phytohormones and auxins for a decade.
In real world measurements, 20 lbs/K is the sweet spot for Triacontanol effects from alfalfa, and applications should be around 4 weeks apart.
Now, when looking for straight NPK values (remember I said earlier that it isn't an apples-to-apples thing), alfalfa is 3-1-3. That means that to get 1 lb/K of Nitrogen or Potassium, you'll need 33 lbs/K of alfalfa applied, and for Phosphorus you'll need 100 lbs/K to get the 1 lb/K number. But at those numbers, you'll be beyond the point where the Triacontanol value is falling. Contradiction.
I'm also suspicious of your math for your "cost/value" calculation. If you want 1 lb/K of the NPK's, you'll be applying 33 lbs/K of alfalfa. At $15 per 50 lb bag, your cost is just short of $10 per K. So is Milorganite at $19 a bag.
- andy10917
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
Moved to Cool-Season Forum - not a "Lawn Basics 101" topic.
- MorpheusPA
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
I actually put alfalfa into its own category due to the growth hormones. Kelp sits in there as well.
And as a different category, it's not directly comparable for the reasons Andy described.
Into a basic feeding category, I drop Milorganite, soy, and you can squeeze corn in there if you want. Spent brewer's grains. And so on. Really, anything that's applied for the purpose of feeding the lawn and adding some OM, rather than influencing it directly via manually taking over the growth signals. This category also doesn't include things that help conditions the soil but have low to no appreciable nitrogen (rice hulls, that sort of thing, and you can also squeeze corn in here if you want, it's kind of a cross-over).
So we could compare Milo to soy, but Milo to alfalfa would be an invalid comparison. That's not to say that there aren't significant differences between Milo and soy (iron in the Milo, for one), but the purpose is the same. If your purpose was to add iron, I'd create a whole different category just for that.
And as a different category, it's not directly comparable for the reasons Andy described.
Into a basic feeding category, I drop Milorganite, soy, and you can squeeze corn in there if you want. Spent brewer's grains. And so on. Really, anything that's applied for the purpose of feeding the lawn and adding some OM, rather than influencing it directly via manually taking over the growth signals. This category also doesn't include things that help conditions the soil but have low to no appreciable nitrogen (rice hulls, that sort of thing, and you can also squeeze corn in here if you want, it's kind of a cross-over).
So we could compare Milo to soy, but Milo to alfalfa would be an invalid comparison. That's not to say that there aren't significant differences between Milo and soy (iron in the Milo, for one), but the purpose is the same. If your purpose was to add iron, I'd create a whole different category just for that.
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
(Morph beat me to the punch, but I already had the following written.)
And then there's the iron. To some, the value of the iron alone can justify the cost of Milorganite, with the N, P, and OM being bonus.
And then there's the iron. To some, the value of the iron alone can justify the cost of Milorganite, with the N, P, and OM being bonus.
For most here, Milorganite is considered organic because it is a carbon-based fertilizer rather than comprised of synthetic salts. It's mode of providing nutrients is considered organic. Regulating bodies might strip it of certain organic "certifications", but it will still be considered an organic fertilizer by those focusing on the inherent nature of the product. I certainly don't disagree with discussions of Milorganite remaining in the Organic forum.Fullheadofturf1234 wrote: ↑September 24th, 2018, 12:15 amI also posted here and not the organic section because Milo was stripped of its looselytermed organic label...
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
Ah good call on the iron.
Apples to cake then
I think I may put less milo and put that money towards aflalfa and synethic combo.
I may have went heavy handed for my first go around ... oops.
Apples to cake then
I think I may put less milo and put that money towards aflalfa and synethic combo.
I may have went heavy handed for my first go around ... oops.
- andy10917
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
BTW, you'll see above that I use "Natural" and "Organic" interchangeably. We're not real big on "OMRI" certification or what governments publish (what do they know?). There are no organic police wagging their fingers here...
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
Zackly. And what are the chances that said alfalfa pellets are certified organic?
- MorpheusPA
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
Near zero. Pesticides were usually used to raise that alfalfa. I don't worry about that overmuch, but there are...other organic lawn care sites...where the mere mention of something that Mother Nature didn't crap out herself is blasphemy.
I don't consider urea organic even though the molecule appears in nature just because it owes its existence to a factory, natural gas, and atmospheric CO2. It's just too many steps out, but if somebody said, "the molecule is identical to natural urea," I'll certainly give you that. So it's your decision as to whether to include it.
Anything grain-based (or other plant-based or animal-based for that matter) I call organic regardless of its certification(s), if any. It's a natural material with minimal processing (drying and grinding, usually).
I don't consider urea organic even though the molecule appears in nature just because it owes its existence to a factory, natural gas, and atmospheric CO2. It's just too many steps out, but if somebody said, "the molecule is identical to natural urea," I'll certainly give you that. So it's your decision as to whether to include it.
Anything grain-based (or other plant-based or animal-based for that matter) I call organic regardless of its certification(s), if any. It's a natural material with minimal processing (drying and grinding, usually).
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
Exactly my point. Thanks Morph. Even the grains of which we speak are rarely, if ever, "certified" organic, so there's no reason to be pointing fingers only at Milorganite in the OP.
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
@Timmy, more than less trying to appease the mods and strumming up convo...
Not like were harvesting and eating our grass every year lol
Im pumped for another app next spring...
Anyone catch their dog eating the pellets or even after the break open ?
Not like were harvesting and eating our grass every year lol
Im pumped for another app next spring...
Anyone catch their dog eating the pellets or even after the break open ?
- MorpheusPA
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
I once got clearance dog food at the local store--it had about ten seconds left on its clock before expiry. I purchased 20 bags.
The dogs ate well that month.
Our elder one will pick at the soy a little bit, but nothing else. Both dogs will go after the rabbit poo of the rabbits that rapaciously ate the soy, however.
The dogs ate well that month.
Our elder one will pick at the soy a little bit, but nothing else. Both dogs will go after the rabbit poo of the rabbits that rapaciously ate the soy, however.
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
I liked the result of the alfalfa pellets that I applied this past spring. I will use them again next spring, if I can obtain them at a reasonable cost.
Is it advisable to make a fall application? I'm following the aggressive N program in most areas (following a Milo "Wake up" application), but am holding off for awhile on some newly seeded areas until they fill in. Soil temps should be high enough for complete breakdown, and I thought it might help with the seedlings. Any advice is much appreciated.
Is it advisable to make a fall application? I'm following the aggressive N program in most areas (following a Milo "Wake up" application), but am holding off for awhile on some newly seeded areas until they fill in. Soil temps should be high enough for complete breakdown, and I thought it might help with the seedlings. Any advice is much appreciated.
- andy10917
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
Yes - I hope you like to mow the lawn
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
Thanks, Andy. Yes, I do. Also, I have more time spring and fall to work on the lawn. I try to make up for the summer when I struggle to fit it in with my work schedule.
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Re: Milorgranite vs alfalfa pellets
How long does it take the Tricontonal to kick it? Does it need to break down all the way ? Or will it leech put withwater?
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